Sorry, the books really confusing. RTD talks to Ben Cook about series 3 episodes and of course Series 4 before Series 3 even aired. So its hard to work out what Ben Cook doesn't know or doesn't tell him!

Well I've learnt to understand your feelings for them but I liked them. Especially Turn Left!

... whatever you say pal. O.o

Dear lord, man. Turn Left was arguably worse than Journey's End, depending on what you're judging it on.

Whatever...

Hahaha, you beat me to it. :D

It was definitely worse than Journey's End. Journey's End, at the very least, could be taken well as comedy. It had a refuge in audacity of sorts. Turn Left was just full of grotesque human drama. I hated Midnight for similar reasons. The suspense was great and all but the drama was too intense and felt out of place in DW. Then again, I think being on a bus full of people getting pissed off is kind of a primal fear of mine.

Turn left also had political statements. Blugh.

Fair point. I forgot what I rated each of them. They were all shit.

I just want to see the Cyber-King fight Mecha-Streisand. That would certainly be an improvement.

You know, if the reboot series of DW falls through, there's always room for an anime...

FIGHTING DALEKS BY DAYLIGHT,
CYBERMEN BY MOONLIGHT,
NEVER RUNNING FROM A TIME WAR,
HE IS THE ONE NAMED THE DOCTOR.

I think one was -1 and the other -3.

I think a lot of Turn Left was made by Cribbins and Tate. I can easily see it as a bad story but luckily, in my mind the acting made up for it!

JE was over-dramatic but still a good story, again in my Turn Left loving mind.

I was thinking about The Next Doctor when I was watching Confidential and thinking about how it felt to watch it as it was being aired and I couldn't give a damn about cannon and a PROPER Doctor Who story. It's Christmas, I want a happy story and enjoyable adventure. I don't want something that ends like Midnight or Doomsday. I don't want a story like the Empty Child, with lots of heartache and emotions. I want something fun, and thats what I like about the Xmas Specials. RTD says that Xmas is very exciting for the kids, and it is. The fun of it and the excitement and its great for them to see it in the Xmas Specials and its a nice way to relax for older viewers and enjoy the story rather than care and get involved with its story. I even think Moffats Xmas Specials will be similarly themed, because of what Xmas is for!

I once imagined the Cybermen doing the Hare Hare Yukai dance...

We'd better write this down :D

That too

That's all well and good, while it's Christmas. Then the next day, when you do start caring about canon again, it all goes to shit. Your forgiving attitude is part of the problem, and what lets RTD get away with it.

Hehe True! Mind you I still do like this episode, like RV said (and I think you agreed also) it's better than some of the others even if you look at it in a bad way!

Forgive me if I don't count "it's not as awful as it could have been" as a valid argument for something's worth.

Fair enough. I was just under the impression that you thought that it was better than the previous specials!

What would you rate The Christmas Invasion because you gave The Runaway Bride a 9/10

ROFLMFAO. Did I seriously? God, I must have been smoking something nice.

Ratings 4 srs:

The Christmas Invasion: 6/10
The Runaway Bride: 1/10
Voyage of the Damned: -1/10
The Next Doctor: 3/10

So, I watched this today.. the first Who I have set eyes on for months, hoping it'd be somewhat good.. but apparently my accident made me briefly forget about RTD.

Le sigh.

I don't know what to say. Oddly enough it didn't upset me, or make me want to rant at all.. it just kind of felt.. empty? I was watching it kind of blankly and it felt like there were many things missing.. and I did roll my eyes at the Cyberking reveal.. but otherwise.. yeah. It was a very odd feeling.

I need to go watch some real Who to feel better now.

Yeah your ratings seemed to be alot nicer when Doctor Who started. I expect it was excitement. Thats what got me with Partners In Crime!

Oddly enough, I dug out my VHS copy of Moffat's 1999 Comic Relief special and rewatched it tonight. Rowan Atkinson as the Doctor, Jonathan Pryce (Miss Saigon) competing with Eric Roberts for the Hammiest Master Award, and Julia Sawalha (Absolutely Fabulous) as the love interest, with the Daleks and several popular British celebrities and comedians as subsequent regenerations of the Doctor (including AbFab's Joanna Lumley as the first ever BBC Female Doctor). Obviously, being a Comic Relief special, it's not to be taken seriously, let alone as canon, but it got me was thinking, as controversial as this may sound to some members, that we need to expect the occasional oddball story from Moffat as well as RTD. (Of course, most recent RTD fare has been oddball at best, but that's a whole other topic, not just one about a single episode.) What do the rest of you think?

When series 1 kicked off Danny initially rated every episode 10/10, then we all realized sooner or later the glittering flaws RTD had and the ratings we all have it were too generous. The hype surrounding the first series was immense.

I rated every episode of the first series 10/10 myself, the second series began to highlight the flaws with 'New Earth' and then 'Love and Monsters' was the TV equivalent of discovering that godawful smell you had suspected had turned out to be from a pile of dog shit from behind the computer. That was when we all started to wake up so to speak. Unfortunately RTD went on record saying he does not care what the fans think, making it only more pleasing hes almost out of the door.

The topic itself for Love and Monsters, check out the third post in that topic:
http://www.dannystewart.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=1741

and so the Internet Hate Machine trundles onwards.

Danny, do you plan to reinstate the negative ratings for the specials? Looking back at them they were hilarious.

After having a good think about Love and Monsters, I find myself ashamed to have defended it. Just look how annoyed I get. :confused:

Come on you guys, do you not think you're being slightly too harsh on RTD? He did bring the show back after all, and his writing's not that bad. Yes, it would be better if he went back and re-thought through some of his ideas, but we could have a LOT worse...

Personally I thought The Next Doctor was brilliant! Alright so it didn't have the genius ideas of episodes like Silence in the Library or The Empty Child (thank you Mr Moffat!), but it was still a pretty good story. I agree the CyberKing was a bit - oh, alright then, quite a lot - far fetched, but that's not the point! The point is that it was a good, solid story with fantastic acitng from all the cast, and for that I'd give it a 9.

...and you were doing so well, here I thought I might actually not mind you. Oh well.

1. Bad writing
2. VEEEEEEEEEERY bad writing
3. Cyberking
(let's skip this one)
5. Crap name for an hilariously crap Iron Man-like cyberman.
6. DOCTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
7. Good acting from David Morrisey

Yeah we don't like people on this forum who think highly of bad episodes of Doctor Who.

No we don't.

You have to realize, we all thought he was good initially, then the facade cracked midway through series two and we realized how dreadfully bad he was, the evidence was there from the start really. You can like him if you want and thats fine, thats your opinion. If you like episodes we don't then you managed to enjoy it more.

You might think we are being harsh, but this has been the way for years now, it's been a gradual process, we gave him chances, held up hope and the return of good episodes to bad ones speaks for itself.

You will find while we all disagree on episodes, there is no doubt in our minds which ones have been genuinely good over the last few years, like The Empty Child and The Doctor Dances. But your on a forum with a bunch of cynics who have learned to spot the flaws in RTD's methods.

In your defense at least you didn't make your writing huge and in bold and put tons of exclamation marks. ;)

But you're saying that to him as though there is something wrong with his opinion.

Not at all. He's perfectly entitled to his wrong opinion.

Technically, an opinion cannot be wrong or right. I'm not saying I disagree with you, but I suppose the best way to say it is that, in your opinion, his opinion is severely misguided... that it may be, but it is still not possible for Darkjedi's opinion to be a wrong opinion, but merely an opinion that is the conclusion of being misinformed... may I suggest perhaps linking Darkjedi to your previous rants against the bad episodes?

Just link him to the ones where opinion was seriously divided.

And I absolutely agree with everything you have said about RTD. Some (oh, okay, most) of his writing IS apalling (New Earth, Love & Monsters, Partners in Crime etc, etc). But I review episodes trying to ignore who wrote it - it makes sure I am without bias towards any particular writer, and it makes it fairer. Even bad writers can give out a good story sometimes. And I, personally, think this is one of those times. Agree with me or not, you have to respect my opinions on this matter.

Or, we could just agree to disagree, and have friendly arguments on the merits and downfalls of particular episodes! (Emphasis on the word friendly - I'm not out to make any enemies!)

And also, how come you never came down this hard on the people who rated it an 8?

I think hes just got used to the people that don't mind RTD on here!

I agree it was a good episode but with some weak bits! I don't think I preferred VOTD but there were bits of it which were better than the Next Doctor!

Actually I was rather open about the whole episode and I thought it was alright before the giant Cyberman appeared and spoilt it for me. I thought Morissey did a good job and I also liked the cameo's of every Doctor too.

As I said before, i thought it was a fair episode and there was parts better then VoTD. I thought Morissey did well and Tennant as usual was superb, plus the cameos of each Doctor was wonderful. Then there was Cyberzilla and those weird Cybershades which spoilt it for me.

Correct. I expect it from some of the old guard by now. Newbies are fair game for my abuse.

Agreed about Tennant and Morrissey, but at this point, good acting from Tennant is par for the course considering he's only as good as the script behind him. Morrissey was great, but again, only as good as the script allowed. Plus points for the acting (the actors are rarely the problem though) and severe minus points for shitty writing. All the good acting in the world can't make a bad script good.

Quoted for truth, I plan on keeping the jury out on Moffatt until end of next year. We know he can write a good script; now we just need to see if he can hold down an entire series.

Yup. Truth be told, I really can't even bring myself to care much these days. I just hope it starts being good again.

Agreed! I know I'll love it because ... I'll want too, I don't like to be negative about things I like!

Interested to see how he will present a series opener!

Agreed, I personally am not getting worked up at all about new Doctor Who, at least it will make episodes less painful to watch if they are shite.

Better then RTD is the obvious answer ;) wheres my money?