Remixes Versus New Arrangements
 

I'm always interested to hear new versions of the Doctor Who theme, but I'm aware that so many, including Murray Gold's various themes are remixes.

That's why when David Arnold produced a new version for Big Finish several years back, it was all the more exciting. It was a fresh interpretation of the theme, and no sampling, apart from possibly the end title hiss. For me, it reinvigorated not only Paul McGann's Doctor, but also the series, and gave it a new aspect for a new decade.

Murray Gold has been vocal about his admiration for Delia Derbyshire's original theme arrangement, and that he viewed his job as merely adding to it to create a fuller, more modern sound. The score he produced for the 2005 trailer used a version of the bassline with no samples, and I thought it was a great result. I was somewhat disappointed that the samples had to creep in to endorse what he'd made, though I realise that recognition of the theme by audiences old and new was the key requirement for the production team.

It's likely that Gold will develop his theme more as he continues to score the series, but I wondered how much respect for the original music could limit musicians' ability to create something new. Certainly many musicians on the Whomix website have focused heavily on Peter Howell's 1980 version as a starting point.

Has anyone here attempted a totally original arrangement of the theme? Did it work out, or did earlier themes influence the sound too much?

Ironically the bassline was pretty much the only thing *added* to the final theme that wasn't in the trailer theme. Things were taken away such as the second Melody 1 on the end, but the only thing added was the Vortex/TARDIS sound at the end of the bassline intro. The Dalek gun sounds have been present since the trailer theme.

Oh and if you're referring to the actual Derbyshire theme melody ("woo-oo's" to you uneducated hordes) they were in the trailer theme too....exactly the same as the final theme. I don't get your argument :P.

Yes, you're right that there were samples in the trailer theme, I should have been more specific. It was the bassline I was thinking of. The Gold theme was produced to reintroduce as well as introduce the series to viewers, so I accept it couldn't be anything else but a remix.

I hear a massive amount of remixes on the internet but few truly unique and original versions of the theme. As I mentioned, Peter Howell is such a massive influence to some that all their themes sound like a homage.

I don't consider this an argument at all, I'm interested to hear what experiences musicians have had in their attempts or successes at creating new arrangements of the theme rather than sampling old ones.

It's a rearrangement :P. Not a remix. Despite the bassline and melody being in there, it *isn't* the original theme 'with bits'. The bassline actually fades out after the bassline intro and isn't present for the rest of the theme, whereas the hisses and flows from the original theme aren't present at all.

Murray added so much of his own such as the snares, string arrangements, brass and sound effects. I know you don't want this to be an argument, but I would always contend that the Gold theme is a totally new arrangement and not a "remix" at all.

Technically speaking, in terms of musical terminology, it is a "remix". However, I can also accept "Rearrangement" because quite often, they are the same thing. And in Gold's defence, he has added a hell of a lot to it. :P

I'd still disagree with it being a remix even technically speaking. A remix would imply it was just the Derbyshire theme with some bits added, when really it's more Murray's work that just happens to sample some elements of the Derbyshire arrangement.

How can it be totally new when he's had to incorporate someone else's work? I understand what you're both saying about the quantity of new material in Gold's mix making it more than a remix — I agree. I used his theme as an example because due to the project's requirements, he had to
incorporate someone else's work, whereas with David Arnold, he didn't.

In any case, what I really wanted to know was this:

For some reason a totally original arrangement sounds to me like something that differs completely, but since that's not what you meant...

I think I've heard a few things on whomix that would count as that. =P "Epic" by Oddsprite sounds alot like Gold's version but it's pretty much completely different. It does use the Derbyshire theme as a base though...
But if it had a totally new baseline it would be original. The only connection to the other themes would be the way the baseline goes and a few sounds, pretty much what connects all the themes.

Originally it was a lot less like "someone else's work" - Russell T. Davies told him to go back and make it more like the original after he showed his original mix.

And no, there has been no totally original arrangements. If it was a "totally original arrangement" it wouldn't be the Doctor Who theme as written by Ron Grainer and realised by Delia Derbyshire, would it?

Oh and I hated David Arnold's theme (which is odd, since I love all the work he's done with James Bond) worst of the bunch next to Keff's....out of interest, which is your least favourite? (Arnold's wasn't a "totally new arrangement", either, if it was a totally new arrangement it would go melody 2, middle 8, melody 1, melody 1 or something. It still followed the tried and tested theme pattern, just with a techno/grungey sound. ;))

Perhaps they should stop saying: 'Theme arranged by…" on merchandise then. It's giving us all the wrong idea.

That's a real shame, but at least he's able to put more of his own stuff in there now.

So no-one's had a go at creating a version of the theme from scratch then? Great, I'll be on my way.

Well Ron Grainer tried in the 70s but it was some crappy disco thing...that's all really.

And yeah they should probably stop saying "arranged by" but there isn't really a better word for what they do...Realised maybe? Mixed sounds too informal...

Trying to do that would be... I dunno, a little pointless since it wouldn't be recognized as a Doctor Who theme. That'd be like trying to make a theme song for your own series. (Something I feel I may have to do in the future if I get the career I'm hoping to get... or at least get somebody else to do. But I want to have a go at it myself.)

No, I don't mean change the theme, just not using samples at all, so it's totally yours and not someone else's.

Even not using samples wouldn't mean it was totally yours - you'd still be following the way it was written by Ron Grainer originally. Probably the closest to a new arrangement *is* Murray's closing theme - he added the countermelody and the melody one loop at the end. But it still has the 1-2-3-4 formula that the others have followed.

Not using samples? That's been done. I'm not sure I can point out anything on whomix but I'm pretty sure I've heard songs on there that had no samples.

No samples has been done before by Peter Howell, Dom Glynn, Keff McCulloch and David Arnold :P.

No, but they'd be your sounds wouldn't they.

But has anyone here tried it — for pity's sake?

One of the whomixers did something like that too. I can't remember the name of it but it actually sounded pretty good despite it causing mental images of Jon Pertwee and Tom Baker in their Doctor costumes having a dance contest.
EDIT: It was Scooby Who by JeX.

Oh yeah. :D

That would be a sight.

How unfortunate! I go away for a weekend and then people start discussing the Doctor Who theme. What timing...

I've done a number of arrangements of the Doctor Who theme that use no samples whatsoever. Probably my best one is titled "The Zero Room," produced entirely on the Arturia CS-80V software synthesizer a little over a year ago now. I've just uploaded it to the site, and you can listen to it here. Dominic Glynn called this version "most impressive - moody and classy" when I shared it with him several months ago.

EDIT: I've uploaded another version I did (again without samples). This one is called "The Lost Dimension" and is available here. I finished this one a couple months after "The Zero Room." Dom called this one a "really impressive laid back, ambient, chill out version." :D

EDIT 2: While I'm at it, here's my Howell, Glynn, and McCulloch theme recreations. Bear in mind these are several months old and were never finished to my satisfaction! The McCulloch one is also a more loose recreation than the other two because I'm no great fan of Keff McCulloch or any of his work. I've been meaning to go back and at least tweak these considerably if not start them over from scratch. (No samples in these either!) The reason the Glynn one sounds a fair bit better than the other two (at least in my opinion) is because I worked closely with Dominic Glynn himself to create it. His advice and assistance was invaluable in perfecting many of the sounds, and it's my proudest recreation to date.

Wow Danny, I love The Zero Room. It's brilliant. :D

I have less love for The Lost Dimension although I can't quite put my finger on what it is about it....

I like your Glynn recreation, the other two seem....strange. Especially the section before the bridge in your Howell recreation. Were you at Blackpool or something? Seaside organs FTL. :P ;)

For me, the original Howell theme is the best. There's enough "thump" in the background to almost give it a percussive side. I like my thumps. ;)

EDIT: I just found my first ever attempt at it. Timing's a bit dodgy. :S

Good to hear your "Derbyshire" one again Danny, I haven't heard it since 2005 :P How long have you been working on them for?:P

Well, "The Zero Room" took probably two months, and "The Lost Dimension" perhaps two weeks. As for the recreations, they have been continually evolving for months, but I haven't worked on them since at least five or six months ago.

Thanks, Jez. It's probably my best remix so far.

Well, if you could figure it out and tell me, that would help. :P

You mean my melody 1 instrument? Yes, it definitely needs replacing. I have a much better way to do it now but I think it would be rather a nightmare implementing it into my existing project. As I said, the whole theme needs to be started from scratch.

You mean the second layer of the bassline, yes. ;)

Any chance of sharing it?

Wow. 2005. Can't believe I've known you that long.

WOW! I really like the Zero room, well done! The Howell recreation made me feel a bit nostalgic because it reminded me of my first Who serial. Ressurection of the Daleks. :) (Nostalgic is a strange word to use because It's really only been a couple years since I saw it. There was kind of a huge time gap actually between the first two episodes of it and the second. We all watched 1 and 2 one night then later that year I guess we watched the other 2.) A lot of themes do that to me though. =P Strangely the actual Howell theme doesn't make me feel as nostalgic...

I've wanted to take a whack at this but I don't have any means of doing it. All I've got is the free version of Wave Pad.:P

The Lost Dimension is very good. As Dom said, it's really impressive! :)

Although your Howell and Keffster theme recreations are incredible, your version of the Glynn theme is definitely the best, in my opinion. ;)

As for The Zero Room, I believe it is a piece of absolute magnificence with a sprinkle of great! :D

Of the one's I've heard - agreed.

It might be the voc/choir pad. I dunno, but I don't feel it's entirely suitable for the Doctor Who theme.:confused:

Yeah. It sounds a bit like an organ. I normally like organs but the context isn't right for me here. ;)

Haha, yeah, I couldn't really tell because the quality of the theme isn't all that great but it would make sense that it is a second bass layer. :D

Certainly not publicly. I'm not even sure if I've rendered it yet, I'll take a look tomorrow. ;)

Well that's brilliant to have a dialogue with Glynn himself.

Yeah, it's got much more mystery about it than some synthesized versions. They tend to drain all that a bit, but you've managed to keep it in this and all of the other ones here.

If the tinny sound of that theme could be toned right down, it would sound so much better, because underneath that it's mysterious and quirky and potentially a really good theme. There was a theme on Whomix a year or two ago blending all the official TV themes together and the version on that sounded completely different. It was much lower and fatter and it sounded amazing. If only someone could do that with the whole thing.

Yes, some of the sounds are extremely close to what he did. Actually, is it true he only had a few days to produce his version of the theme?

I agree. He's a great guy and a great musician. I've had the pleasure of listening to some of his latest work and it's just magnificent. He always takes the time to talk to me and help me with whatever I'm working on too. In fact, I'm heading to England for two weeks this coming Wednesday, and Dom has agreed to let me come by his studio for a visit. It should be terrific!

Thanks very much!

It's nothing special really... he just lowered the pitch down five semitones to the pitch of the original Derbyshire theme. I quickly replicated what he did to it, and you can hear what the whole thing would sound like here.

I heard the same rumor, and I asked him about it. This is what he told me:

Wow. What an honour! :D

Indeed! I'll post pictures here for everybody to see. :D

Great! I'm really looking forward to them! :D

That's amazing, it does make a massive difference doesn't it? A lot more moody and interesting. Thanks very much for that Danny. This was my music watching the show as a kid, so I've also got the benefit of nostalgia when I hear it.

To hear Dominic Glynn's own comments about the theme is wonderful. Reading what his brief and timescale was, it was a phenomenal job under the circumstances. It always bugs me with the Big Finish audios actually that they use his extended version of the theme and not the one used on TV, which I like better. It has more punch in the bassline and the first few notes follow a different pattern, making it more dramatic. They do the same with Peter Howell's theme as well — the sting at the beginning is from his extended version and is less stark.

I had no idea that another theme had been produced and used only for The Trial of a Time Lord season until I watched the story on video. It was quite a surprise, and I think it fitted Colin Baker very well too.

I understand. Keff has a lot going on in his theme, much of which sounds cool. Sadly, it's the main instruments (bass and lead) that let it down, not its backing.

You're absolutely right, and that's always bothered me about the Big Finish releases as well. However I was curious about it, so this was another thing I asked Dominic Glynn about, at least as far as his own theme goes. He said:

As you may or may not know, the Dominic Glynn opening and closing themes have sadly never been commercially released in any capacity, even though all the other themes (including various opening and closing edits) have surfaced over the years. I asked him about that too, and he said:

However, I am fortunate enough to have heard Dom's original recordings of the full opening and closing themes. They sound truly astounding -- much better than anything that was ever heard on TV. Dom has requested that I keep to myself on this, but take my word for it -- his themes are much better than the televised broadcasts (or even VHS releases) would indicate!

One word. Wow.

Yes.

That's fantastic. Well let's hope the BBC does get in touch with him for the masters and releases them along with all the other themes.