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-   -   Doctor Who 3x11 - "Utopia" (https://forums.dannystewart.com/showthread.php?t=8544)

Chris Britton June 16, 2007 2:02 PM

Plot Summary - Written by Russell T Davies
When Captain Jack Harkness storms back into The Doctor's life, the TARDIS is thrown out of control and sent trillions of years into the future: the end of the universe. There, they find the savage Futurekind ruling the wilderness, while a lonely professor tries in vain to save the last of the human race.

That was an absolutely storming episode! The best so far! 10/10 immediately! So well presented!

Marinedalek June 16, 2007 2:05 PM

I think this episode has to get an automatic 10/10 for the return of The Master *AND* an audio clip of Roger Delgado in The Daemons

Jez June 16, 2007 2:10 PM

My first ever 10/10.

Chris Britton June 16, 2007 2:16 PM

I did put down the plot description, please can people try to avoid messing.

Dalek104 June 16, 2007 2:17 PM

Absolutely brilliant.

10/10

Marinedalek June 16, 2007 2:18 PM

I forgot to copy it across from the thread with the misdone poll - I was about to put it back when you edited your first post. The other poll couldn't be edited - you need to start from the beginning to make votes public.

Chris Britton June 16, 2007 2:23 PM

Ok then, im sorry if things did go wrong, I did do my best to get the topic correct :(

However, this being the first of what will definatley be a magnificent 3 parter :D thumbs up that the next two weeks will be so exciting, :)

MickJo June 16, 2007 2:25 PM

Great episode, definite 10/10.

Chris Britton June 16, 2007 2:32 PM

How do you manage to put up the header when you put the poll? Or is t automatic?

Did anyone notice what the USA guy said in the teaser, it seems there are more old friends returning

Marinedalek June 16, 2007 2:35 PM

Only admin (I think) can change the banner. Usually either Dalek104 or myself do it.

Ronnie Rowlands June 16, 2007 4:07 PM

Loved it. I only wish Derek Jacobi could have stayed on as the Master, he seems much better than John Simm. I really enjoyed it though, Jacobi was excellent, and all the references to past episodes were fabulous. Also, I have to ask, can anyone get a clean version of that tune that was heard through a lot of the music, first played when they are talking about the watch, that, was music at its finest. 10.10

Jez June 16, 2007 4:20 PM

I actually thought Jacobi played the part very well. Wouldn't expect anything less of him really. :P

Ross Hendrie June 16, 2007 4:45 PM

Hmm, I wasnt too impressed I must say. The whole "humans going to utopia" thing was very poorly done, it was a very poor attempt at fillibustering for the whole episode between the return of Captain Jack and then return of The Master.

The return of said persons brings it up to (barely) a 9/10.

MI7 June 16, 2007 4:46 PM

I...am...The Master!

Easily my favourite episode *ever*. Despite the fact I became sure that Prof was The Master about 10 minutes in after the Mr Saxon drumming appeared, the tension all the way through especially at the end was tremendous. The one problem I had was after the really sinister and low key performance of Derek Jacobi as The Master which was fantastic, John Simm seemed to really drag it back down to 80s panto Master. We'll see how it goes next week but eh.

250/10

Chris Britton June 16, 2007 5:18 PM

Derek Jacobi's performance was nothing short of what we excepted, truly sinister at the end and kindly and troubled at the start, He would have made a great Master had he stayed on. It was kind of heartbreaking as well when you see The Doctor trying to convince him to not do what he was going to do. I really thought this was just so well done. Best so far.

Ross Hendrie June 16, 2007 5:32 PM

lol Kind of heartbraking?

Doctor: "Master, im sorry."
Master: "TOUGH!"

Danny Stewart June 16, 2007 8:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross Hendrie (Post 37068)
Hmm, I wasnt too impressed I must say. The whole "humans going to utopia" thing was very poorly done, it was a very poor attempt at fillibustering for the whole episode between the return of Captain Jack and then return of The Master.

The return of said persons brings it up to (barely) a 9/10.

Agreed with Ross here. The episode itself was actually quite disappointing. The "humans going to utopia" thing had no relevance to anything and I found myself just going "huh? what? um, okay, sure" for the first 10-15 minutes or so of the episode. The whole main plotline just seemed pretty meaningless to me. I didn't understand much, if any, of it. It all just whizzed by with so little explanation. I just didn't get it. It felt hurried and rushed and quickly put in place. It felt like a placeholder, before I even knew what place it was holding.

I must say I also found the way the Doctor greeted Captain Jack to be quite odd. Jack had been looking for the Doctor for so long, and the Doctor hadn't seen Jack for so long. I was just kinda like "WTF?" at their reunion. It was so rushed and low-key... it seemed a bit out of character for both the Doctor and Jack.

The real subject of discussion here is the return of the Master, obviously. I will say that I preferred Derek Jacobi's debut as the Master to the (admittedly little) amount we saw of John Simm so far. Derek Jacobi played it perfectly -- low-key, scary, evil, sinister. What the Master should really be, in my mind. After the regeneration he seemed a bit too excitable and boyish -- testing out his voice, for example, and the "bye bye" line all seemed a bit out of place. But I won't judge him too soon, and also, I know what regeneration can do to a Time Lord's persona.

All things considered, I feel this episode most truly deserved an 8/10. But because of what it is, I feel as though I'm obligated to give it a 9/10, so that's what I'll do -- although it just barely, if at all, deserves it.

Hamster June 16, 2007 9:47 PM

I can't say I agree with that completely, but I do think the episode could have been better. However, after what I thought was something of a shaky start to the series, things have really picked up

I give it a 9/10

MI7 June 17, 2007 4:03 AM

People bashing the storyline for apparently not making sense - don't forget that this is a three part story, and so this is only a third of the way through. We have no idea how this Utopia thing will play out in the last two episodes, especially considering the Doctor and co are now stuck on Malcassario and the Master took the Utopia co-ordinates disk with him.

Who? June 17, 2007 8:08 AM

It was rushed I feel, but still very good. 9/10:D

Chris Britton June 17, 2007 9:27 AM

I agree with M17, this is a 3 parter, so this is going to be a bit more like the serials we had in the old series, so lets give it a chance, things are just warming up. I am totally with MI7 on his point. It's like if you turn on F1 and you see the cars moving slowly in a line as they are on their warm up lap. You don;t say it;s poor or rushed, things are just getting started, stick around and let things develop.

And i notice people seem to be comparing Sir Derek Jacobi to John Simm. I think this is unfair as you are comparing an acclaimed actor to someone who has only been well known for the past few years, and besides, we have not gotten a good look at the Simm Master yet, so i personally thing people are running before they are walking, we have only seen the Simm Master for 5 minutes! Give the guy a chance and lets see how it goes, yes Jacobi played the Master superbly, with all the hallmarks of his profession, But lets look ahead here. guys, give him a chance, we gave David Tennant a chance, give John Simm a chance, he would not have been cast if he was not any good. We have not seen much of him, and we should be waiting until next weekend before we can comparing him to previous Masters, most of you are jumping the gun by about 7 days. Wait for the right time.

I do recall people were unhappy with David Tennant when he got cast as The Doctor, when we had not seen what he could do with the Doctor, sadly people are now doing this to John Simm. I saw him in Life on mars and i thought he was superb, i think he will make a great Master. As Danny always likes to encourage us to look forward and not back too much, as he did when the 10th Doctor appeared ;) :) I am hoping he might do the same here, as we are dealing with Time Lords ;)

I personally think they stuck in Utopia to show a sense of Irony, as it shows The Master ( In human form ) Being a source of good, it shows what he might have been like had he not become evil, it gives us something to think about, It's drawing parallels for us guys ;). It shows The Master could easily have been a Saviour or worlds, of life in general had he not been exposed to all that evil, it's trying to make us think that we can all influence the universe in different ways, it depends on the paths we choose. Yes, it was not technically The Master who saved Humanity, but just pay attention and think about it.

Personally, i think this is a lot of unfair criticism being aimed at the Actors and the plot when we are not giving them a chance, why can't we all just step back and get immersed in the story. Give them a chance. You can;t compare a knighted Actor to a newcomer so easily, you have to let them blend, David Tennant has given us a Doctor of the likes we have not seen since the great Tom Baker, now how can you say John Simm is a poor Master when he only got 5 minutes and little dialog compared to about 40 and lots for Sir Derek? Take one step back and just think about it. I'm quite surprised at some of the things said

Danny Stewart June 17, 2007 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MI7 (Post 37079)
People bashing the storyline for apparently not making sense - don't forget that this is a three part story, and so this is only a third of the way through. We have no idea how this Utopia thing will play out in the last two episodes, especially considering the Doctor and co are now stuck on Malcassario and the Master took the Utopia co-ordinates disk with him.

I have not forgotten.

Also, I will say that the storyline did sit easier with me on second viewing. So now I'll upgrade the episode from "barely 9/10" to "stable 9/10." :P

Chris Britton June 17, 2007 10:17 AM

I still think peoples negative views on this episode have been harsh and too quick. If someone will read what I put and respond to it.

Personally, I bet you all next week you will all be saying what a great episode it was and how John Simm was pretty darn good." :P ;) I'm going to give him a chance, i note Danny will as well, so lets all sit back and let things develop :) lets enjoy the next 2 weeks, as thats all we will get for 5 months ;)

Ross Hendrie June 17, 2007 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny Stewart (Post 37076)
Agreed with Ross here. The episode itself was actually quite disappointing.

What?! What!!! *dies*

Danny agreeing with me? Wow... Not that im complaining mind you lol.

I also agreed with the Jack/Doctor re-union, it didn't really explain well why the Doctor left Jack behind plus I thought they weren't very true to character. Although, it did explain how he ended up in certain places, such as the British Indian Army in the 1920s.

Chris Britton June 17, 2007 11:45 AM

I do agree with Danny and Ross about the Captain jack bit, as that did not really explain it well, and it felt out of character somewhat. Hopefully that will be gone and forgotten by next week.

Ben Dawson June 17, 2007 12:37 PM

I thought this episode was brilliant, in my opinion, the story wasn't REALLY about Utopia, that was only the sub-plot. I don't think it was rushed, I loved the radiation room scene between Cap'n Jack and the Doctor. And I thought it FINALLY tied up a lot of loose ends concerning Jack and why the Doctor left him, and how Jack got back.
What can I say? The Master, he's back, and it's about time. Derek Jacobi was brilliant, absolutely brilliant, especially when he's become the Master. I'm already liking John Simms' Master, and him acting like the Doctor after the regeneration actually sat well with me, remember guys, the original idea for the Master was the he was an evil version of the Doctor, a counterpart if you will. In fact, had Roger Delgado not have died, the Master would have turned out to be the Doctor's dark side (in one way or another). So in that sense, I think it's good, because it gives an enemy we can relate to like the Doctor, that we're closer to. I like that Idea because that makes us care about the villain more, and make us all the more glad when he makes a return like this.

Chris Britton June 17, 2007 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Dawson (Post 37096)
I thought this episode was brilliant, in my opinion, the story wasn't REALLY about Utopia, that was only the sub-plot. I don't think it was rushed, I loved the radiation room scene between Cap'n Jack and the Doctor. And I thought it FINALLY tied up a lot of loose ends concerning Jack and why the Doctor left him, and how Jack got back.
What can I say? The Master, he's back, and it's about time. Derek Jacobi was brilliant, absolutely brilliant, especially when he's become the Master. I'm already liking John Simms' Master, and him acting like the Doctor after the regeneration actually sat well with me, remember guys, the original idea for the Master was the he was an evil version of the Doctor, a counterpart if you will. In fact, had Roger Delgado not have died, the Master would have turned out to be the Doctor's dark side (in one way or another). So in that sense, I think it's good, because it gives an enemy we can relate to like the Doctor, that we're closer to. I like that Idea because that makes us care about the villain more, and make us all the more glad when he makes a return like this.

So agreed with, glad to see you enjoyed it as much as me :)

Superkid11 June 17, 2007 10:42 PM

I thought it was awesome, it didn't seem rushed to me at all. I figured he was going to be the Master but the way he showed up was way different from how I imagined... I guess it'll be explained later, but it looks like he grabbed himself a Time Lord body after somehow surviving the Eye of Harmony.

I can't wait to see the rest! OH WHY DO I HAVE TO WAIT WEEKS!? ;_;

... wait, the "accept my majesty" clip was from a classic episode?

Danny Stewart June 17, 2007 10:53 PM

No, the "Destroy him! Then you will give your power to me!" clip was Roger Delgado's Master from The Daemons.

Superkid11 June 17, 2007 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny Stewart (Post 37188)
No, the "Destroy him! Then you will give your power to me!" clip was Roger Delgado's Master from The Daemons.

That's probably what I actually heard and I just misheard it. :P

Danny Stewart June 17, 2007 10:56 PM

No, you're thinking of the "The drums, the drums, the drums, the never ending drum beat. Open me, you human fool. Open the light and summon me and receive my majesty!" line, which was Derek Jacobi.

Chris Britton June 18, 2007 5:23 AM

I thought there was one line which seemed more distinct, now thank to you i realized it was from a previous Master.

Im curious as to how the drums fit into all of this, but given the name of next weeks title, im guessing we will find out.

I will say, I do hope John Simm will make a great Master, but with the way Derek Jacobi preformed his role, that was the highlight of the episode, it shows what a cracking actor he is, and he was very immersing and when he opened the fob watch, that was one of TV's best moments. They have clips on you tube when shows the 10 or so minutes when he becomes The Master, and it just sends ripples down my spine.

Ronnie Rowlands June 18, 2007 7:43 AM

Can I just ask again, has anyone got a clean copy or willing to remix the music first heard when derek jacobi is talking about the watch?

Danny Stewart June 18, 2007 10:46 AM

I may take a crack at it, but I can't do anything at the moment. I'm actually in the process of rescoring the entire last 12 minutes or so of Utopia. Should be an interesting project.

Superkid11 June 18, 2007 11:10 AM

I rather liked John Simm's performance. Yeah, Jacobi's low-key dark performance made a great old Master but Simm is a good young Master. I personally like that boyish excitability about him now. After all, isn't he supposed to think of his conflicts with The Doctor as a game? Besides, that personality makes him kind of like The Doctor. ;)

Danny Stewart June 18, 2007 11:46 AM

I can see that side of the argument. We'll see how it plays out. ;)

Chris Britton June 18, 2007 1:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny Stewart (Post 37332)
I may take a crack at it, but I can't do anything at the moment. I'm actually in the process of rescoring the entire last 12 minutes or so of Utopia. Should be an interesting project.

This I want to see, I thought the score was well done, but if you think you can make it better, then I want to see the results mate :) You have caught both my eyes and ears on that little project :)

I agreed with that last comment before Dannys, if i recall, somewhere The Master did say he and the Doctor fuction together or smetihng like that?


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