Superkid's iMac thread
 

For ****'s sake what is wrong with you people.

I think you're the one with the problem. Macs are the way to go... some people just take longer to see that than others.

In response to your problem, Superkid, I'm happy to help you pick the right Mac for you. We'll worry about base model first, and then I'll help you to narrow down which version of the one you pick would be best for you.

I whipped up a comparison chart giving you a rough idea of what to expect from each of Apple's systems.

http://www.dannystewart.com/pictures...005-005154.png

I will try to respond to each of your questions individually.

Can you recommend something fast / that can run many programs at once?
Fast is relative these days. I seriously doubt you'll run into any crippling bottlenecks even with the low-end Mac mini, but it does depend on what you'll be using the machine for. My old Mac mini (1.66 GHz Core Duo, 512 MB RAM) didn't have too much trouble running lots of programs, but it was a bit on the sluggish side even during general use. The best way to describe it is that performance didn't decrease with more programs; it just wasn't that great to begin with. (I subsequently upgraded it to 2 GB RAM.) As far as "fast" goes, though, you should be okay with just about anything from their current lineup.

What about reliability?
To be honest, Macs are more reliable pretty much no matter what. This has to do with two things, primarily: 1) Apple has hand selected the hardware that goes into their machines, therefore compatibility and performance is maximized, and 2) OS X is just helluva better operating system than Windows is. It's written better, it performs better, and it's just plain more stable. There's just no comparison. I can all but guarantee that you'll have very few (if any) reliability problems with any Mac. (And if you do, their support is good -- but in over a year and a half of Mac ownership I've only ever needed them to replace a failing hard drive, which they did quickly and free of charge.)

What about Windows emulation?
You're covered here in multiple ways. First, Apple has released a piece of software known as Boot Camp, which will allow you to partition off a section of your hard drive and install Windows to it. You can then choose at startup to boot into either Mac OS X or Windows (both XP and Vista are supported, though I think I know which you'd prefer). Both operating systems are completely self-sufficient, and Apple allows you to burn a driver CD so that you can fully use all the machine's hardware in Windows. It functions just like you're sitting in front of a PC (because, in effect, you are). You can then restart back into Mac OS X at any time.

There is another alternative available to you, in the form of either Parallels Desktop or VMware Fusion. Both of these products allow you to setup Windows in a "virtual machine," which resides on your hard drive and is activated from within Mac OS X when you so choose. Essentially, this is like running Windows in a window. Performance is not as good as with Boot Camp, as you are pretty much running two complete operating systems at once, but it's easily good enough to run just about any basic Windows application. (I even have FL Studio running in my virtual machine with good performance.) Both of these products also have an excellent feature called Coherence (or Unity in VMware) which essentially allows Windows applications to run transparently alongside your Mac applications. The Windows VM is still running, but you cannot see the desktop or Start menu, and instead just interact directly with the applications as though they were Mac applications. See the screenshot below.

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/1...0940aa0.th.png

What about Windows gaming, specifically?
You have less choice in what you can do here. Parallels and VMware both support DirectX graphics, but only up to DirectX 8.1 (the current version is 9). Unless your game came out several years ago, you will likely be unable to run it in Parallels or VMware. Instead you must run games using Boot Camp, which can make full use of your graphics card's abilities. This is a very viable solution and it's how I play all my games now. Just something to consider.

Also, if you plan to play any recent games on your Mac, you will need to get a Mac with a decent video card. The Intel GMA950 simply isn't capable of handling most newer 3D games, so if gaming is a consideration, you can start by ruling out the Mac mini and the MacBook. Neither of those is designed as a gaming machine.

I have a MacBook Pro and it runs games very well. It's very nice to be able to play all my games wherever I am at quite high graphics settings. (I'm very happy with my MacBook Pro -- it does everything I need it to do and more.)

Are there any kind of software synth / MIDI issues?
I honestly don't know what you're getting at here. I think you're getting your wires crossed. First of all, Macs are the choice of the creative professional when making music, so it's a safe bet that it has everything you would need. Second of all, my Mac can play MIDI files just fine with no additional software than what comes out of the box, so I would say that whatever your concern is is invalid. And finally, it really doesn't matter what the Mac has if you're worried about Windows games, as you won't be using your Mac's MIDI engine for the Windows game! You'll be running it either in Boot Camp or in Parallels/VMware, so you will be using the Windows sound engine anyway!

I hope this post was helpful for you! Together I have confidence we'll be able to choose the right Mac for you. Congratulations on your choice! :)

Yeah. It's the same problem religious freaks accuse me of having because I don't believe in God. In a way, the cult of Mac is very much like a religion. Blind to the faults of your belief, you always have an excuse to support them, no matter how nonsensical it is. You go around preaching about how amazing your cult is, trying to lure everyone in, and then try and discredit everyone who shows you for what you really are: f*cking delusional.

I have the freedom to do whatever the f*ck I want with my computer. You get to do whatever Apple wants you to do, and pay more for it!

Just f*cking get over them already and stop parroting everything their bullshit marketing tells you to.

Uh-huh. I'll get over them when they start being a worse choice than Windows (i.e. never).

EDIT: I feel the need to point out that Mac OS X will "never" be a worse choice than Windows not due to faith (blind or otherwise) in Apple, but merely due to extreme disappointment and a lack of belief that Microsoft will ever bother to improve Windows. It is true that Mac OS X is light years ahead of Windows in terms of its kernel and reliability, but I would give Windows another chance if Microsoft ever actually bothered to try and improve Windows (i.e. stop being a performance pig, remove all the DRM bullshit that Apple doesn't make us deal with, etc.). As far as I'm concerned, Microsoft has demonstrated to me that they are moving in the opposite direction to remedying these problems, which is why I've abandoned them and have no plans to go back. I, personally, am much happier with a Mac, because it Just Works(TM), and I've read stories from countless other people online saying the same thing. I think most people would be happier with a Mac but there's a few sad people left over that will still willingly subject themselves to Windows. That's fine. That's why there are choices in the world. I choose a system that works for me, you choose a system that works for you. No one's forcing anyone else to go in any direction. Superkid posted here asking for help choosing a Mac, and that's what I am happy to provide. So if you're going to be so full of negativity towards Apple and Macs, perhaps you should just butt the hell out of this thread so that we can discuss things in peace without you running in and being an idiot and a jerk, kthxbai.

Windows only has DRM for people stupid enough to actually pay for it :P

Seriously, if you're going to support something, support Linux. Linux and OSX can do everything Windows can except games, which is cool because anyone considering getting a Mac obviously doesn't play games anyway (except for the few who can be bothered tainting their precious white boxes with a Windows partition or really really like Quake 4).

Linux is usually free and infinitely upgradeable and modifiable and has more tech support than the internet has room for.

Although I will admit Macs do have an advantage over Linux if you're a composer, which is because most goddamn nonconformist beatniks use Macs. But I don't think Superkid is a composer, are you SK?

Linux also has that ****ing awesome theme thing which makes Aero and Mac's windows look like the NES.

EDIT: My point is, a PC you can upgrade up the kazoo and do whatever you like with, a Mac you can't. If you're thinking of getting a Mac and dual-booting with Windows, buy yourself a PC and use Linux and Windows. You can even get Mac OS themes for Linux ;), so it's just like you're using the goddamn thing. Except you didn't have to pay for that shit and you can upgrade it and modify it however you like.

The only windows exclusive games I have for now are much simpler things like Game Maker games and stuff. :P I'm not much of a PC gamer, I have my gamecube for the big stuff.
Thanks Danny, you're a good help. :)

And, surprisingly, so are you RV. I hear what you're saying(as far as Linux goes anyway. Cult of Mac? :P), and I've actually considered that. Problem is, I'm not much when it comes to customizing my computers. I just work with what I get.

However, you've piqued my curiosity. So I'm going to consider both your suggestions. For now I'm far too curious about Apple to think about passing it up(and there's no version of Flash for Linux ), but Linux is sounding pretty good too. I can't buy two computers, but if my dad's computer is going to be left unused I could test linux out on it and see how it works out... even though my dad's computer may not have much longer to live...

So thank you both. :)

EDIT: Waitwaitwait, RV, are you saying Apple doesn't distribute automatic updates like Windows does?

Um. I think Quicktime player has its own softsynth which it uses to play stuff. It has built in reverb too! :P

Oh, I forgot, the SW synth is actually playing MIDIs that are inside things such as Game Maker games and such. MIDIs have played on their own with my SW synth volume completely down, but have been scilent in applications that use them. That used to be the case for Runescape too until they got their own soundbank. I thought it had something to do with a sound card that macs didn't have.

Not true. Windows has DRM technologies embedded into the core of the operating system. I don't know why you seem to think downloading Windows bypasses DRM. (And by DRM, I don't mean Windows activation and licensing. I mean stuff that Microsoft has put in at the behest of the entertainment industry which effectively restrict what I can and cannot do with my computer.)

I agree. Linux needs strong support, and I do support it and think very highly of it. However it is nowhere near the level of development that Mac OS X is. And in fact, Mac OS X runs on a Unix core, so you're essentially getting the best of what Linux has to offer when you get a Mac. And additionally, any computer that can run Windows can play games just fine (that includes Macs, PCs that dual boot Linux and Windows, everything). That argument is very, very invalid. Additionally, EA and several other developers are now porting their games to Mac. Now that they've moved to Intel, Apple has a potential future in gaming which developers and publishers are already starting to pursue.

There's also a huge library of other software made exclusively for Mac. Basically if you do anything creative, you're at least equally well off on a Mac, if not better off. Linux is a wonderful, wonderful operating system and is very advanced in many areas. However in terms of software, it is still very much in its early infancy. No one (and I mean absolutely no major software developer) publishes software for Linux. Adobe suites, Microsoft Office, Apple software, you name it -- if you're on Linux, you're out of luck. Sure, there are many free and open source alternative available, but if you need anything more than mid-range tools, you're completely out of luck.

Also, WTF? Since when is nonconformity a bad thing?

It's called Beryl, and, while awesome, Mac OS X's interface is somewhat similar out of the box, and can be tweaked to do almost everything Beryl does. To be perfectly honest, I believe Windows can be tweaked to do the same thing, thus rendering this section of your argument totally pointless. Thanks for playing. :)

Seeing how misinformed you are almost makes me want to cry, but the fact that you're misleading poor Superkid is just inexcusable.

1) Macs can be upgraded. Memory can be increased in all Macs. Hard drives can be changed out in most Macs. If you need serious upgrade potential, the Mac Pro is just like a normal PC -- almost everything can be swapped out at your discretion.

2) Linux running a Mac OS X theme is nothing like running a real Mac. For one thing, it's all surface level. You can take a screenshot of the desktop and say "look, it looks just like a Mac!" But the functionality will be fundamentally different. Nothing will work the same as it does on a Mac. Additionally, you will not be able to take advantage of any software for the Mac -- which, frankly, is the key selling point of a Mac in the first place. So stop pushing Linux and acting like "it's just like Mac OS X but free." That argument is complete bullshit.

You're welcome. To be honest, Game Maker and related stuff should actually work in Parallels or VMware, so you may not need to run Boot Camp. I have not tested it myself, though, so don't quote me on that.

RV has a lot of pent up Apple and Mac hatred going on. Please don't just believe what he's saying blindly. A lot of his argument has merit, but as I've pointed out above, a lot more of it is just anti-Apple bile spewing. Try and run ideas by me as much as possible -- while I do love Apple and recommend their stuff, I will do my best to give you an unbiased answer to your questions.

Also, just for your reference, Macs are capable of running Linux as well, either in a Parallels/VMware virtual machine or using a dual boot system like on a PC.

Nope, Apple has a Software Update application which is used to distribute updates. They just come out a lot less frequently than their Microsoft counterparts, because shit ain't broken to begin with. :P

I addressed this question above. Both operating systems have full MIDI support.

Nope. Macs have sound cards just like PCs do. Or else you wouldn't have sound. :P

Anything that requires the use of MIDI will work 100% fine.

Ok, that's good. :)
Thank you Danny, and trust me, I already knew RV was a tad bit aggressive. I think he's seen the worst side of the more obsessive apple fanboys/fangirls...
HOWEVER, I'm still somewhat curious about Linux. I'm still taking his suggestion into consideration in the interest of fairness...
Though seriously, the more I hear about it(not just from you) the more awesome Mac seems. ...and I AM interested in composing. Sort of. I'm more interested in Flash development. Man, it's pretty expensive though. Still less than my Media Center I think, cause from my recollection it was OVER TWO THOUUUSSSAAAAANNDDDDDDDD!!!

Oh, and I'm going to send that info on Parralels/VMware and Game Maker programs to a friend of mine who uses a mac. He's dissapointed that he can't play this awesome game maker game on BZPower.

There's one more thing I need to ask about it now. You've used Windows a lot before you used a Mac amirite? What's it like adjusting to the new OS?

You should be curious about Linux. I love Linux. I really, really do. I'm probably one of the biggest supporters of Linux you can find. I love setting it up, making it work with my hardware, tweaking it to how I need it. Sometimes it takes minutes, sometimes it takes days, but for some reason, I actually enjoy getting down into the nitty gritty of the OS and making things work like they should. I love almost everything about it.

However, (and this is a BIG however), I have consistently found that once I set up Linux and get everything working perfectly, I am pretty much done with the OS completely. There is nothing more I can really do with the system, because there are no high-end applications for it to do the things I usually do (music, games, video editing, image manipulation, etc.) and as a result, I simply stop using it. This has happened probably dozens of times. On a dual boot system with Windows and Ubuntu, I use Ubuntu very frequently for a few days while I'm in that "initial setup" phase. As soon as it's done and working perfectly though, there is nothing more for me to do, and I invariably switch back to Windows because it's where I can actually do stuff.

Note that this has not been a problem on my Mac -- in fact, I have not felt the need to boot into my Windows partition for over three weeks now, which I find quite liberating.

They are expensive. But in my view, they are worth it. They're great computers and they will last you forever. I just hauled my original first-generation iMac (from 1998) out of storage, put Mac OS X 10.3 on it (the version prior to the current one), and I was amazed to discover that this ancient piece of junk machine (233 MHz processor, 288 MB RAM) actually became usable. It's slow, but it's consistent and it somehow manages to remain graceful. The machine easily functions as an internet terminal or music player. I was extremely impressed (and elated to have another Mac around).

Excellent. Parallels is a great solution and it should be able to handle just about anything you throw at it, as long as it's not a recent game with an advanced graphics engine.

I've been a Windows user all my life. My primary computers have always been Windows boxes for as long as I can remember. My first experience with Macs must have been around 1995-1998, but that was in the Mac OS 8 and 9 days (very different to how things are now). Then I moved away from Macs for no real reason, other than that I kept getting new PCs given to me every couple of years and it became less viable to do what I was doing on the Macs instead of the PCs. Last year, though, I decided that I was going to get back into the Mac fold (after their switch to Intel processors). Around June/July, I bought myself the $800 Mac mini (which at the time had considerably lower specs than the current $800 Mac mini). I fell in love. The machine was not blazingly powerful, but it renewed my interest in Macs and I kept abreast of developments from Apple. Eventually, after conferring with Dom and Murray (who both use Logic on Macs), and after deciding that I really hated Windows and wanted to be rid of it (and realizing that I would never be able to use Linux as my sole operating system), I took the plunge and bought the MacBook Pro. I haven't looked back since and don't regret it for a moment.

To answer your question, getting used to the interface in Mac OS X shouldn't be challenging for you. This is a very, very general statement, but I usually describe it as being "different from Windows but generally easier." Of course this isn't true for everything in OS X, but overall, you will have to relearn some basic fundamentals, but once you're in, you're in pretty much all the way and it's very simple from there. I'd say the learning curve is significantly less than a week -- if you're a die hard Windows lover and also an idiot at computers, it may take you a week to get used to everything. I had adjusted within 48 hours -- I'd give you 96 tops. But you'll be able to do most of what you need to do long before then. Hope that's helpful. :)

Yeah, I'll go for Parallels too. :)

Ok, thanks. ... now I'm going to ask a stupid question. Macs have USB ports right? I have an external hard drive that I'm going to use to transfer my data to the new computer.
And seeing as they do use two-button mice, do they have a right-click just like Windows?

I'm extremely happy to hear that they last that long, because computer entropy has hit me pretty hard once. Ever since then I'm paranoid about how much time my computer has left before it dies. That and I tend to get-this is going to sound stupid-sentimental attachments to computers I particularly enjoy using.
... and one MORE thing... does it happen to have an option for password-protecting folders? That's all I'll say on that. :P

Absolutely. You'll have no problems -- unless your external drive is formatted as NTFS, in which case you will be able to read from but not write to the drive. If you're just using it for one-way transfer from PC to Mac though that won't matter.

Yup. Works exactly the same.

If you thought you got attached to PCs, wait till you own your first Mac. I feel like my MacBook Pro is part of my family. (Not exaggerating, either. It's the first computer I've owned that actually manages to strike an emotional chord with you.)

I have never needed to use such a feature so I don't know. I would guess not though -- they do have an advanced permissions system but not (as far as I know) the ability to password protect a folder. All you can do is set access rights based on user or group. However there may be a third-party solution that lets you do this (or an OS feature that I am not aware of).

It does have this though -- probably not exactly what you're looking for but it's something: http://www.dannystewart.com/pictures...005-143432.jpg

Alright, most of if not all my reservations about switching to apple have dissolved. Of course, you're not the only one helping me with this(Google is being good too), but you're the best help so far. :)
Yeah, I'll have to check the formatting on the harddrive.

I was just curious about the folder protection. I don't think I need to encrypt all my files like that, I can keep whatever secret folders I have hidden away. :P My mom and dad don't tend to go spying on my computer activity anyway.

Man, I almost want to go ahead and get one, but I guess I can wait another couple of months. :P

Is there an equivilent to Microsoft Paint for mac with the same features? When it comes to recoloring spritesheets Paint's transparent color feature is really handy...
(Sorry if my spelling's a little more off than usual, I'm kind of sick today.)

Keep your porn on an external HD, and hide it somewhere. :P

If you're going to use it for Game Maker, (which btw IS VERY WIN) then you will be running windows either in a virtual machine or using boot camp anyway. So you don't have to worry about that anyway since paint will be on that.

I don't use Game Maker, I just have a few games made by it. I use the sprites for comics and animations. ;)

Glad I'm being helpful. :)

Again, it will only affect your ability to write to it. Right now I have two external HDs hooked up to my MacBook Pro, my old Data drive (which is an archive) and my new drive which is specifically for use with my Mac. The Data drive is NTFS so I only read from it. New stuff goes on the new drive.

I'm sure you'll figure out a way to make it work. ;)

I know that feeling! Those weeks of waiting to get my MacBook Pro were hell!

Poster Paint - http://www.robbieduncan.net/cgi-bin/...terpaint/index
SeaShore - http://seashore.sourceforge.net/
Pixen - http://opensword.org/Pixen/

Any of those should more than meet your needs.

Ok, I think these are my last questions:
How noisy do macs tend to be? My HP Media Center is pretty quiet, much quieter than the pc I had before it. I want to make sure I don't have something that makes me turn up my TV volume. :P

I think I heard you can burn an XP installation disk from an XP computer. That would really come in handy, because I don't want to spend money on a whole XP disk just for Parallels. Is it true, if so how can I do it?

I think I'll be more specific as far as speed goes. My current computer has an 820 Intel Pentium D processor t(I think that mark is a t). I'm leaning towards the iMac, is it as fast as that? The Mac Pro is way too expensive(so far as I know. My parents might astonish me and actually consider it), not even my current computer was that much.

Very, very, very, very, very quiet. Perhaps unreasonably so.

For example, my MacBook Pro came from the factory with the fans set not to go above 2000 RPM (the lowest possible setting) unless the temperature inside the machine got extremely high. After a week or two, I was almost unable to use the machine because of how hot it was getting. I thought something was wrong with it, until I found that Apple had just capped the fans so that the machine would just be super-silent. I've downloaded a program that allows me to set my own presets for fan power, and I now have it running at 6000 RPM (the max) when plugged in, and 4500 RPM while on battery power (to save some battery power).

(For the record, this did NOT put the machine in any kind of danger. It was just uncomfortable to have on my lap for long periods, and this will not affect you at all on an iMac.)

Sorry, this is untrue. You need an existing XP CD, or you'll need to download one from Demonoid or some other place online. Just head for any BitTorrent site and look for a Windows XP Professional Service Pack 2 (SP2) CD -- make sure it is a Corporate or Volume License CD so that it will not require activation.

The speed in GHz would be more helpful than the processor model. But having researched it, the Pentium D 820's run at 2.8 GHz.

Therefore, the answer to your question is a complicated one. Technically, the processors in the iMacs are not as fast as that. However (and please pay attention here), all Apple computers use Intel Core 2 Duo processors, and Intel has revolutionized the processor industry with the architecture of a Core 2 processor. Because of the way that a Core 2 processor works, the actual clock speed doesn't matter as much in comparison to other processors that technically have higher clock speeds. I have heard that a low-end Core 2 Duo processor can outperform a significantly "faster" processor from another line, such as the Pentium D.

I would not worry about processor speed -- suffice it to say that an iMac with Core 2 Duo will perform very, very well.

Ok, I'm sold. :P (Sorry RV, but ya couldn't "save" me from assimilation. ;)) Maybe it's a good thing I'm not getting it now though, seeing as Leopard is coming out on the 15th. Be sure to lemme know how that works out. :) I'm pretty surprised an iMac can be that powerful but that compact. I guess this show I saw on the Science Channel was right, Apple is a lot farther ahead than the others.

I'm pretty sure we have an XP home edition CD laying around. If it's cool with that, then I shouldn't have to worry about downloading it or buying a new CD. (I can just let it upgrade to Sp2)

Alright, now I'm sure this is the last thing I'm going to have to ask.
What antivirus program do you recommend? I obviously can't use Live OneCare.

And, just for the heck of it, are there any nifty programs it comes with off the shelf? :)

I'm going to go cry in a corner.

Just wait, I'll act like a Cyberman.
(Well, when I'm done jumping with glee)

I'll definitely post my thoughts on Leopard once I get it (which will be very soon after it comes out). Apple is indeed much further ahead than the others -- I don't know why it consistently takes Microsoft so long to play catch-up!

That will be fine.

None. :)

http://www.apple.com/getamac/viruses.html

Tons. All new Macs come with the iLife suite. Read more about it here:
http://www.apple.com/ilife/

(However, that same page says it doesn't hurt to have some extra software protecting you while you're at it. ;))
Uuugghhnn... *droool*....
This is why my sig is how it is now.
I'm swarming all over the apple website now, it's three months away but I'm already getting psyched about this! :)

Thank you so much again for all of your help. I've pretty much got my mind set on the iMac now. I just wonder what I'm going to do with the empty space where I had to put my PC? :P

They're just covering their asses. I've never even heard of any security software for Mac OS X, and have never run any myself. It's not necessary.

I know the feeling! It wasn't long ago that I was in the exact same position just before I got my MacBook Pro!

Haha, well I'm excited for you. I know you'll love your spiffy new iMac when you get it. :D

On a side note, have you given any thought to which iMac model you're going to get?

http://www.dannystewart.com/pictures...006-035855.png

Put a statue of Steve Jobs there so you have something to direct all prayer towards.

I think I'm going to go for the least expensive one. Maybe the second least expensive. I dunno, I'll have to talk to my parents on that one. Unfortunately for now they still supply the money.
The one on the far right costs so much I might as well get a pro.

The little people inside my head won't like that. Or they'd make innuendo jokes.

If you can go for the $1499 one, then you should by all means. But you'll still be fine with the $1199 if you can't, so don't worry. :)

True, but I'm sure Danny would appreciate not being the only one on the forum doing it.

See what I mean, Superkid? I think he's just sad that he doesn't have a Mac, and he takes it out on those around him. :rolleyes:

I will. :) The monthly payment option seems pretty good too, they may be more comfortable with that.
Lol yeah, either that or he can't stand a corporate giant getting more money because he's a conspiracy theorist. :P

Pfft, I'm paying about 1,500 bucks here. Isn't that enough? :P

In the same way I'm sad I don't believe in God, am sad I don't own a PS3 and am absolutely shattered because I didn't pay for Windows. :P

About $700 more than enough.

In my honest opinion the space is better left for a statue of David Tennant at least.

RV will never understand. That's okay, though. We don't need him. :)

You want the iMac?

:(

Macs or my unhealthy obsession with David Tennant?

What? :P It's so nifty...... pretty... smoothe... so powerful but so compact...

...

I need another cold shower.

Exactly...

Someone's attracted to iMacs. And I couldn't blame them.

They're not just computers. They're beautiful.