Atonement for our behaviour
 

I have been chatting to Ben on MSN, and he has allowed me to see that a lot of my behaviour towards a certain person on this board has been nothing short of disgraceful. I am expecting backlash for this, probably because for my doing a U-Turn on my actions and also because I have been, to put simply 'an asshole of the highest calibre'. :(

The person I am talking about is our very own James P, that certain member of the forums who since his introduction here has been the result of many memes, but ultimately a lot of poor and disgusting treatment, which has gotten to a point now which i think is unacceptable. The irony of posting this is not lost on me, I've been at the forefront of most of the bullying, and upon reflection I am filled with my own disgust and sadness at what I have said. These forums is heavily influenced by Doctor Who but I feel that a certain few of us, myself included, have been acting very un-doctor-ly.

I'm admitting to my own failings right here. I also remember when RV and me got into a spat over the nature of my own posting, I tried to learn form what was said and to become a better member of the forums. I should have realized this much earlier, but when James was reacting to what was said about him, I could see me in those posts. I forgot until now, when ben reminded me, that I would never and tolerated such things aimed at me I am aware he has not learned from what we tried to advise him on earlier, which resulted in the poor treatment aimed right at him. However there is a line, we crossed that ages ago. Since when did we tolerate threads being made for the purpose of taking the piss out of a member, when did we start allowing ourselves to be swept up in cyber-bullying? Have we forgotten what happened when Daryl came on, and the treatment we got from him and his friends, whos to say we are any better now, myself included.

I regret now, and quite badly that I have allowed myself to be the person who was firing off insults to him, and that It took until now for me to open my eyes again. I saw that Ben was not posting as he was ashamed to post on the board, and I saw Ronnie standing up for him in the 101 reasons topic quite witty-wise, and other members have tried to stick up for him. I am going to be in trouble for what I have done, and what I post here now, but that will be the weight of my own actions bearing down on me, and I am ready to accept what I have done.

When did the forums turn from a haven for all of us, a place where we could come and be ourselves without any problems, to a breeding ground for people to fight off anyone with deadly force who does not fit the type expected of a typical DSF member? have we really fallen this far? I know I have. We have become something we never wanted to go near, we have started to go down a place we all wanted to avoid. I won't point fingers at anyone, because I am one of those people who has behaved in a disgraceful and disgusting manner.this place was supposed to be a haven for the outcasts in society, but our secret society has now become the idiots that pick on everyone else.

You can say what you want about what I have posted about, but here is one member who's turning around, seen the light, seen the magnitude of his actions, and is realizing what he has done, and wants to put a stop to this course of action, to say 'No More' I don't expect instant forgiveness or absolution, but we all need to see what we have done. james made the effort, as was said before; "He wrote those scripts because thats all he got back." he joined a place because he loved Doctor Who, and we forced him out because he was just himself. I won't soon forget what I did, This is not the DSF I know and love, and I hope we all see what we did wrong, so we can have it back. :(

I'm backing Chris 100% percent on this, some of the attacks that have been aimed at James P. has been disgusting.
I mean, here is a guy who joined a forum, hoping to make new friends, and thinking that he'd meet people like himself...but all he found was that he was outcasted for being himself.
I mean, Daryl Jones and his friends, they were people who deserved to be outcasted, as they had no respect for the forums. But James P. does, I don't see him TRYING to upset any body, or talking using text speak, OR turning the forums into an instant messenger. All he's done is try and settle in, and you guy have pulled him to bits.
I am DEEPLY ashamed at all of you for all this. I used to consider this place a safe haven, a 2nd home, but over the last few days, I've been posting less and less because I've found that it's become place of poison, and that makes me deeply unhappy. And because of this, I have actually been seriously considering leaving the forums, because I've found everyone is starting to turn into chavs (by attempting to destroy or ridicule anything that isn't like them), and that is something I REALLY hate.
I hope that I'll see some changes after this, because I don't find any pleasure in being part of a society that does something like this.

I decided not to say anything because I thought there was noting to be done for it, but the fact that he's been taking crap for being himself is pretty fucked up.

<nods> You did nothing wrong, it;s a case now of stopping this action and cleaning up the mess a few of us made by causing these problems.

To be fair while the guy was attacked in an unprovoked fashion at first he really made no attempts to better himself and continued posting absolute rubbish. Any attempts he made at defending himself were also thoroughly immature and seemingly designed to cause offense back at the person attacking him.

Chris has nothing to apologise for, really.

I'm still going to go back and delete all the posts I made, that I can find which were aimed at him.

Why should he be mature, when everybody else isn't being?

I am also in full support of Chris. I made the mistake of giving up trying to stop this behaviour.

This needs to stop immediately.

Fact is he's just recently turned 13. I was annoying back then.

I tend to not want to read his posts because of this, it makes me cringe seeing somebody act the way I did. But there's really nothing wrong with that.

I'm sorry, but I have to agree with Tom. James P. brought this on himself to a large degree, and while it may have been undeserved at first, the way he responded to everything completely brought on all our subsequent behavior. We're not bad people, but I don't feel like we have reason to feel too bad about any of this. This is my community and I'm selective about who I want around, and he made no effort to improve himself nor did he just decide to up and leave. Either would have been helpful. As far as I'm concerned, this is his doing and his problem. If he doesn't like it, he's welcome to not spend his time online here of all places.

No one else was mature because he wasn't, not despite of it. Why should everybody else be mature when he wasn't.

I'm all for people being themselves, to a point. Feel free to destroy all evidnce of your involvement in this but really there is no need to. Plenty of new members join this place and fit in just fine while being themselves. Hell, James Minty is bullied by everyone all the time but has anyone "seen the light" and left him alone? No. And does he seem to mind? No. He gets on with it and even insults people back but christ at least the guy is reasonably mature about it and doesn't end up making giant huge posts all in fucking caps or red or underline or something. It's all about how people here carry themselves.
TBH I think Lenin or whoever started this thing needs to seriously consider whether they're right here. Apparently James P can "be himself" without retribution but those who dislike it and then tease him can't then "be themselves". Whichever way you stand on this issue you're a hypocrite, basically.

Well, if he bothers you THAT much, then why didn't you just delete him yourself?
Jamie Minty isn't bullied half as much as James has been, and James has been at the fore-front of severe bullying in my opinion.
The problem is, you guys didn't encourage him to change, you rather sharply told him.

Agreed, does not take much to delete him if you hate him so much. the fact your endorsing this sort of bullying Danny is suprising. I'm just as bad for allowing myself to do so, so i probably am a hippocrite, but this sort of thing can't go on.

I'd like to toss my hat into this as well.

When James came to the board, I was very nice to the lad and tried to help him out. He continued to put his foot in his mouth, insult people left and right and not take ANY of our advice in the long term.

This ended up with even myself snapping back at him, when it became obvious (at least to me) that he seemed to be seeking attention with no intention of bettering himself.

Trust me, the irony of all this isn't lost on me and all that. But like others said, he ended up bringing this on himself even after we attempted to guide him.

It really sucks that members here are feeling like they can't log on because of this.. and I don't want that at all. But like Danny said, we're not bad people, but it's not our duty to accept everyone that comes out of the internet into this community. Some times you just don't fit.

I'm a HUGE believer in "be yourself". But hey, sometimes that doesn't work with a certain crowd, so you go find a new crowd where it does work.

*shrugs*

What's the point in deleting him? That solves nothing. He would rejoin under the same name and the whole thing would start over.

Leaving him on the forums at least gives him a chance to stop his immaturity and go some way toward bettering himself.

That's just it -- he doesn't bother me. He's entertaining as hell. We've had so many great posts and threads come out of this, and a lot of great laughs too. Deleting him would have deprived us of those.

You cannot tell me you failed to see the decline in the quality of posting over recent weeks, as well as the increase of abuse and bullying? Whether he brought it upon himself or not, when he first posted here it was with good intentions and not with the aim to be "annoying".

After his initial posts, a few members attacked him. He responded as human-nature determines - aggressively. One thing led to another, and it's ended up into a giant flame ball. Ironically, he's actually stepped back and ignored a lot of the recent abuse, showing more maturity than those who commit the abuse.

Is this community one that respects individuals for who they are? Or is the narrow-minded, medieval way of thinking and acting to take precedence?

http://www.dannystewart.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=8968

His 'Hello' thread. You'll notice most members greeted him happily, with a lot of people offering advice. RV was being the RV that we know and love.

Even James FIRST post in that thread is just asking for flaming, though. I sometimes wondered if it was a member on another account, doing it to mess with us. :P It's almost TOO obvious at times.

So your happy to laugh at another persons misfortune just because they are different to you. Thats still bullying Danny, and I know your better then that, I can't believe you would keep another member around just to laugh at them. I'm behind what Jez said, I'm tempted to take a sabbatical like Ronn, but that would be accepting defeat. Would you have accepted Daryl doing this sort of thing? The irony in your post is so obvious, we are no better then him now.

One member attacked him - RV. The other members simply told him to ignore RV. Did he listen and actually like, take their advice? No.
He claimed to have Aspergers syndrome (and to be honest, knowing Chris firsthand I seriously, seriously, seriously doubt that he did.) yet later he outright attacked Chris, the other member with aspergers, for trying to back him up.

I suggest everyone rereads his intro topic instead of simply trying to remember it with their guilt-tinted spectacles on.

Quoted for truth. I don't have the energy to participate in this anymore, so I'm just going to start quoting people I agree with. This is part one. Enjoy.

The point remains that despite the fact we gave him advice and was friendly, we did not have to stoop so low, we are no better then people like Daryl for attacking him, we can hardly count ourselves as more mature for doing and saying what we did.

Don't lose any sleep over it man. You didn't do anything wrong.

+ YouTube Video

What is it that you'd like us to do then? Delete our posts and make some sort of public apology?

I will freely admit I sniped at him. After I offered tons of advice, over and over again in a constructive manner.

The kid never tried to better himself.

I do not feel the need to make some big huff about it.

If he came back and was acting differently in a positive manner, I'd welcome him.

I'm unsure as to what you want done here Chris. But I really would like everyone to be happy.

Part two, everyone. Ta.

Jez brings up two very good points. Even if James deserves some of it for not listening to us when he could, the constant bullying is actually getting really annoying, it's an eyesore.

By 'decline in quality of posting', you mean having some of the busiest times lately on the boards due to all the great creative talk over the audio dramas?

Sure there's a bunch of silly and pointless posts, but those will always pop up for fun.

And by 'stepping back and ignoring the abuse'..? Well, I'm not sure what James has done lately, but he probably just got tired of it and went to spend his time elsewhere. I'm not sure if this falls under 'being more mature'.

Seriously, why is everyone suddenly making such a big deal over this? I hate seeing members of this forum upset, but what happened with James has been outlined more than once so far.

Let me also say again 'What do you want us to do?'

Part three. I'm so glad I have people here who can articulate my thoughts and feelings so perfectly for me so I can just sit back and quote them. Thank you, Kody. :D

Ok, you got me on that first thing. :P That part's great fun, but some of the crap's gotten into it too.

The James picking-on was funny for a while, I admit, but it got really old. I'm not sure what to do about it, personally... I just hope for his sake he's left as he can't seem to get along with us at all.

Well, if you, Chris or anyone else comes up with something specific you'd like to see done.. please say so. I'm sure Danny with listen to it, as will everyone else.

I want these forums to be an active, awesome place as always.

I'm man enough to stand behind what I posted. If anyone thinks I was just outright bullying James, please look at the reasons for it above. This may not excuse me, but hopefully it will shed some light on things. As well as go back and read his intro post. I hate to say it but it sure does seem people are drawing wild conclusions that aren't true.

I still say, if he came back and learned to act just a bit differently and not inflame everything, I'd be perfectly social towards him and hope he became an active and productive member of the community. I just don't see that happening. :P

In the end, it seems like this is just being blown out of proportion. I don't mean that in a bad way towards you, Jez, Chris or Ben.. but honestly. Can we move on please?

Your welcome, I try. ;)

James P is just an idiotic attention whore. Get over yourselves, you sound like a bunch of preteen girls.

Chris, you directly challenged my authority and went against my explicit instructions by re-locking a thread that I expressly reopened and decided should remain that way. As far as moderators go, there is no greater crime you can commit than directly disobeying the wishes of the site's chief administrator, however much you may disagree with them. In light of this, your moderator privileges have been revoked indefinitely.

Quoted For Awesome.

If thats the only action your taking, by stopping me from stopping a thread devoted to picking on another person, then that merely proves how inward and selfish and lazy you have become Danny. I guess it's no-ones fault you have gotten your head stuck up RV's ass to the point where you both smelling out of his nose, if all you can do is punish someone who saw the bullying he had done and wanted to put a stop to it. I hate for it to end this way but i refuse to be part of a forum that allows a member to be kept on for the sole purpose of being picked on, perhaps your worse then Daryl now, I'm sure he would be welcomed back with open arms now. The fact you gave RV the moderatorship once you revoked it from me just proves that he should be running this place, your just a lazy arrogant bastard who's become king of his own little world.

The irony I have to state now is that RV said to me a few days ago that "It's people like me who fuck up democracy", perhaps that should be applied to you now Danny, I honestly once looked up to you. James was only 13, he should not be expected to be completely mature and grown up. most of us here are roughly 16 or over, can everyone at 13 be expected to act all grown up?

I hate for it to end this way, but when a forum crosses that line where it begins to resemble something like something i'd sit on the toilet and get rid of then it's become a typical Internet forum, I saw this Ctrl+Alt+Del comic a few months back, and at the time this would not have been applied to DSF in my opinion, but now on the other hand:

http://cad-comic.com/comics/20080227.jpg

To all those people who stood behind me when I raised this point, I thank you for helping me out, and to Ben and Jez for helping me see that what i did to James was wrong, no matter how much of a pain he might have been, but there is no way i will stay on a forum which punishes those who stand up for those treated badly, it's gotten beyond disgusting now. We have gotten beyond scraping the bottom of the barrel now. To everyone else who read this I am not taking a pop about you, it's two idiots on this board who have ruined this forum for me, I wish everyone else good luck in the future, I hope the audio production goes well at least.

I can only hope James has left, at least he does not have to see what we have become anymore. Don't bother dishing out any more punishments to me Danny, It would not be worth the extra brain activity you can be bothered to use, I will show myself out.

To be honest I'm not in support of this at all. Taking Chris' mod abilities away for such a petty minor infraction. That's going too far imo.

Hope you're not gone long man.

I wish i could say I won't be gone long, but I can't stay here unless things improve, the audio production is one of the best ideas this place has had, but it feels hollow while punishments are dished out wrongly to people standing up for the less fortunate and those less fortunate are allowed to stay on the forum just so they can be picked on, how can that be justified? even if the person might not pick things up so easily, it's never justified to keep someone around to mentally torture them. I know I said yesterday that I would not leave as that would be accepting defeat, well after this morning i changed my mind, because that was what made me see was that Danny does not care anymore. there was a time he would never have tolerated the bullying given to James, now this place has become too much like a typical internet forum. I hope things may get better, but to be honest I won't be holding my breath.

Well, I'm sorry you feel that way, but the fact of the matter is that this is my site, and my word is law above all else. If I make a decision, it is the staff's job to enforce that decision, regardless of how much they may disagree with it. It is by my will that the staff serves here as staff at all. I will not have people serving on my staff who see fit to go behind my back and make their own decisions. Like I said, that's not how it works. My site, my rules. I made a decision. If you have a problem with it, you talk to me about it. You never ever just go behind my back and decide to enforce your own beliefs instead of the person who runs the site and who made you a staff member in the first place. That's not only a moderator problem, it's a respect problem, and it's a betrayal. I was absolutely shocked to see Chris of all people outright betray me like that, but let this be a warning: this is what happens when staff members go against me and my decisions. I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is. I run this site. If you don't want to be here, then that's fine, and we'll get by without you, but if you do want to be here, then you play by my rules and that's the end of it.

http://miketolen.com/serendipity/upl...aambulance.jpg

Seriously, this is getting ridiculous. I've been on forums on and off since I was James P's age and I never was like him. I learned from the cliques of the forum what was and wasn't acceptable as far as behaviour went and played along, I still have friends from those forums so long ago I still talk to, despite the forums being long since dead.

If he's not prepared to try and fit in, then it's not our place to change to suit him. If he doesn't like it, there's the whole rest of the motherfuckin' internet out there for him to talk about his Grandmother to.

It's rediculous how many times we have to repeat this; check the banner up there, read whose name is part of the URL. Is this JamesP.com? No. Is it ChrisBritton.com? No. So get the fuck over yourself, Chris, or go make your own forum. It's really that simple.

This is getting past ridiculous now.

I don't know why this is so difficult for people to wrap their minds around.

Thank you. That's the bottom line here. Check the URL, and if you don't like the decisions that I make, then leave. It's entirely up to me how I run this site, and I'm perfectly entitled to make wildly unjustified decisions. However in all honesty, I don't think I have. Not before, and certainly not now.