Improving DSF - Please leave constructive feedback
 

Hey everyone,

This is an announcement, mixed with a request for feedback.
As everyone here knows, forum activity has dropped greatly over the past weeks and months, this is due to a number of things.

You could spend all day pointing fingers, but in the end pretty much everyone is guilty, even in some small way, including myself.

But, I'm a strong believer in the fact that when mistakes are made, you need to apologize for them and find a way to move on. Dwelling in the past and not the present is a very, very bad thing. Considering you can do nothing to change the past.

Here's the plan.

We want to make DSF better than it's ever been before.
That means, new rules, new ways of treating people, new mod and user guidelines we'll be enforcing.
If you want to help DSF, please leave some feedback here with what you'd like to see changed and or done with the forums in the future.

The process has started, it's only a matter of time now.
We need a united community that is willing to put the past, even the recent past, behind them and be mature about the future.

I don't want to see anyone making sniping or flaming comments about events that happened in the past, you'll be warned if you do such things and continue to repeat the offense. Move on. :)

Thank you.

I cannot stay away knowing I wouldn't be helping this noble cause. I agree to forgive and forget. As my grandma would say, "Let's start over, how are you today?"
Grandmas-- We need to listen when they're speaking. They may just give you a new hope.

I'm willing to start over, how 'bout you?

Thank you for the support, James.

Everyone, please pass this news on to friends that are members here and encourage them to come post their thoughts, feelings and ideas.
As long as it's in a mature and constructive manner.

Forgive me if I have very little confidence in this. Here's one thing:

1. James is quite inherently annoying. It's not his fault, but none of us can help our reactions. However, if he sticks around this will stop. Ronnie used to do this to some of us, but that stopped. If James simply sticks around and we do clean up our act slightly, it'll be easier for him to adjust to us if he sees us as worth it.
(Honestly though James, I still think you should go elsewhere on the internet. I seriously doubt we're going to lose much of our collective harshness.)

2. Danny's behavior lately.
The problem wasn't just RV, it was Danny himself. While he is definitely not as unflappable and trolltastic as RV was, Danny has become pretty elitist. When I say "elitist"... well, just look at the "favorite episode" topic. Disliking said episodes is one thing, but he made fun of those who thought differently. I do find Danny's opinions and thoughts a good read, I've read over his whole review of Last of the Time Lords and others to understand his views on the new series and in Doctor Who in general. But I feel he takes it far too seriously. Having opinions is one thing but just look over the "favorite episodes" topic and tell me that isn't pure elitism. I myself have even downplayed my enjoyment of some episodes of the new series out of fear of criticism for it. (Though I've been pretty honest about it recently.)
He now condones behavior that was once discouraged, like Chris said a while back. I think if we're to clean up our act, Danny himself has to to some degree.
(I say Doctor Who specifically because I haven't noticed this behavior on any other subject. WELL... aside from Apple and stuff.)

Don't get me wrong, aside from all this he's been a good admin and friend. But this is a very serious contribution to the decay of the site.
I could even say the same for RV, aside from his often mean and irritating nature he was a brilliant and funny person to talk to.

Well, I agree with superkid on Danny. Myself... kinda. Danny really has become very rude. I don't think the webmaster on any website should act like that at all. Unless it was a website dedicated to being rude. I do think Danny is very nice when he wants to be, I appreciate that, but we need to see more of that side!

Thank you for posting Super.

I do hope we can give you some faith back, I'm working hand in hand with Chris, Danny and others to try and start turning things around as we speak, it isn't some weak little attempt. :)


James is free to stay, if he wishes, we'll try and be as nice as possible and let him integrate himself as he sees fit. He's also free to go somewhere else of his choosing, *shrug*

Many of these things will be covered in the new rules. We'll be nice and try to help people settle in, but there is a limit.

I can't speak for Danny, but I think many of us had strong reactions to the last few Doctor Who episodes. This is a personal thing, but still. I can see the constructive points you were trying to make and the new rules/etc should help us all curb our ranting a bit.

That said, stating your opinion in a well thought out and posted manner will be heartily encouraged, people just have to learn to respect each other. In that same thread others resorted to name calling and flaming for no good reason, it goes both ways. We'll be trying to appease both sides.

Bring on the ideas. :)

My concerns-
1.) RatSouffle's avatar. Just an epileptic seizure and him getting a lawsuit waiting to happen. Change it. I'm looking out for you, Rat.
2.) Our reactions to others' posts.

His avatar isn't going to give anyone and epileptic seizure.
I'm pretty sure that to cause someone to have such a seizure the animation has to be different.

Either way, in the new rules we'll have guidelines for sigs/avatars/etc.. but even with those rules, nothing should be wrong with RS's avatar.

This will also be addressed in the new rules and a large announcement to the forums.
In the end, it's a personal thing that everyone will need to work on.

Thank you for your ideas.

Ok, but I am afraid of the seizure thing. Just an FYI. The world doesn't need a repeat of the Pokemon episode Electric Soldier Porygon.

Yeah, because the same number of people visit my site as watch Pokémon.

I was making a comparison, damnit! Does everything I say have to be mocked!?!?

Yes.

Why? Is being nice so beyond you that you see it as something for poor men or something? Is it a "Poor man's emotion" to you!? Well call me poor, but I feel that being poor & nice is better than being rich and rude, Danny Stewart!!

I don't have a penny to my name at the moment. And I'm usually quite nice. Ask any of my friends. :)

Agreed.

Well I deserve equal respect. I am a human being- not your verbal punching bag!
I will leave it at that.
Back on topic.

Well Done Kody! Very good idea and nice thing to do.

1) Some posts from all types of people on here (I will even admit to this) aren't very appreciative. I think on episode discussions some people should accept other peoples posts a opinions a bit more, and I don't just mean Danny, and not make them completely negative.

2) Aiming things at specific people, James you want to support this yet you argue with Danny, and look at you status!!!!

3) I don't know whether this is being worked on at the moment, but keep the audio productions a lot more active. Keeping us entertained with different events would be great especially as this is a small community. A roundtable discussion for Series 4 would be great!

I am treated like that almost whenever I post. Anything I say is f'ed up by a few people. And Danny allows that!

If I ever have a forum the 1st rule will be this:
1.) Other members, mods, and admins are living, breathing things that have feelings. Treat them how you want to be treated. If you do not, and you treat them badly often, you will be outta here so fast that you might break the sound barrier! People here @ {Insert forum name here} are to be treated politely or else.

No one's stopping you from making your own forum. You might be happier there.

James I don't want to argue but your doing what I said, having a go at one person, Danny, and this is his site. At the end of the day he could choose to make none of these changes to the site but if you contribute and be helpful to him and let things go then maybe he and others will listen more.

And acting as the innocent saying "I'm human" is very annoying, because all humans are different. You have said you will leave twice and gone against it which makes you look as if you just want attention.

Just try to help change the rules and not go against them and act as the leader of this idea because at the end of the day Kody is. And he is an extremely sensible guy and has sorted everyone out here perfectly before.

I hope this is considered constructive criticism.

I would, but I don't have that much free time to be there. What happens when school starts? What then? It was just an example.

Thank you, I hope that with everyone helping we can make some good changes.

It's an Internet forum, everyone here isn't going to be your friend and that goes both ways as well. Do not take everything everyone says personally. Develop a thick skin as well. ;)

But yes, this will be addressed in the rules to a degree.

Jamie makes a good point.

We're trying to figure that all right now as well.

Of course that counts as constructive criticism Jamie, thank you for the thought out post.
You make good points and James should take heed of what you said.



And in closing, once again..


I will DELETE any further posts that are not in this theme, unless they are from staff members.

Take your other conversation elsewhere and please keep this thread to improving the website.
If you can't do that, well, we don't have much hope then.

Just a heads up I have been chatting to Kody and have been making progress so I just want to run a few things by Ben, sadly he is moving house today so It may be a day or two before I can talk to him proper. But Kody managed to convince me that people are keen to get the forums back on track after the mess of the last month.

I do wish to apologize for how i acted when i defended James, I still stand by my choice ti defend him and to try and encourage James, but I want to say sorry for how emotional I got and clashing with some members, I don't regret snapping at Rv because that made me feel better, but to anyone else I ment no harm, especially to you Danny. I just wanted to do what I felt was the greater good.

I will confess to those or don't know that me and Ben did form a new Sci Fi Forum, but I want it to be know our intentions were not to cause problems for DSF or to be assholes towards you, we wanted to instead continue the values and the legacy of DSF and pay tribute to it, we called it Sci Fi Society. I am thinking of making a full time return as Kody will tell you. I would love for both SFS and DSF to work together and both benefit, as well as for me and Ben to make a return as well. I will keep you guys posted, but I wanted to establish my intentions to try and help the forums.

Maybe SFS and DSF can become sister forums? Or, in this case, brother forums?
I'd like to apologize for my behavior from earlier today as well-
I really took things too hard. I really am not an attention hog- well, I don't mean to be.

I especially apologize to Dannny. Your talent comment really hurt, though. But I do apologize.

Frankly I think having separate sites just hurts both in the long run.

Agreed.

I can say from personal experience that this is 100% true.

I heartily echo everyone's statements from above.
Brother/Sister forums, or websites, usually just end up hurting each other.
It's been proven time and time again.

If everyone returns to DSF will be up to each individual and Chris, Ben, etc, though.

I just hope we can provide a place they -want- to come back full time to.

Well it was only a suggestion. I really didn't know about that fact about the bro and sis sites, though.

The point remains that I will continue to admin SFS alongside Ben, and I am going to be making a return to DSF to help out as well. Both forums don't need to become brother/sister forums. But I will be on both to help out both.

I am both saddened and disappointed by your decision. As I said above, having two separate sites will hurt the success of both. If you are not willing to support a single, unified site, then I have very little hope for any of this.

One time I was a regular on this forum called TYR, it had its share of drama every year or so, and eventually a group of us got tired of it and made our own place, NB, in the hopes of beating TYR at its category.

In the end though, it turned out to be more of a suicide bomb than a success drain. Our activity on NB is very very low these days. TYR is deader though.

Case rested.

I'll have to echo Danny's sentiments here.. and also what Super said, it's really case in point.

Now please, Chris, or anyone else reading this, do not take this the wrong way. I am not trying to be 'This site or no other!' or some kind of discriminatory elitist thing, but as Super and others have stated above, two sites, split in a manner like this, fail almost 100% of the time.

Human beings just find it hard to share and split their attention so much, is what I think it boils down to.

We're willing to extend the proverbial olive branch and do whatever you and Ben would like, to get everyone under one roof again. New forum sections? New Rules? What else? Work with us here. We -want- to make this work.. but if we stay split between forums, it's just going to ruin it for all of us in the end. :(

I think it's important to maintain positive discussion in the threads. As an example, if someone likes an episode which is generally viewed as bad, it would be a better approach to ask that person to explain their reasoning rather than to automatically make fun of them. I know how easy it is to just dismiss what someone says if it seems completely preposterous, but it is much more respectful (and much more conducive to debates and discussions) to first ask them of their reasoning and to attack that rather than to attack their taste as a whole (or in some cases their personality). I have nothing against being snarky in your counter-arguments against arguments which you believe are stupid. However, it is a problem when you start making fun of the people themselves rather than the arguments they present.

I feel that a person should be able to defend his or herself from an attack with logic and reasoning. It's hard to fight back against an attack which has little to do with the argument at hand and exists merely to be funny and hurtful. When people start throwing names around and acting unnecessarily cruel, people get hurt and the integrity of the site is undermined. I think this type of behavior should be limited because it is not constructive. Instead of acting as constructive criticism, it merely acts as a deterrent to those who wish to express their honest opinion on the threads.

This is just something I've noticed in my brief time as a member here. I thought I'd throw in my two cents. :)

Hence the above for a lot of my "I liked it because I did. That's my opinion and you have to accept it" type posts. ;)

+9000

That is the best idea I've heard in a while!:)

Just to give you guys A heads up I have not forgotten about this place personal activities have kept me off for a few days. Plus I am still waiting for Ben to get back online so I can chat with him about this weeks matters.

I have some draft rules done and I will be submitting them sometime monday to Kody for him to glance over, so I am still back on board and willing to help out. :) I don't like the idea of being the person responsible for this place shutting down, i'm not taking a pop at anyone, it's just a scary thought to have on your mind. It makes me really want to have the place survive, if not it's making me dig in and fight tooth and nail for DSF's survival. I don't want to have the feeling I am part of the reason the place may close. I don't want that to even be considered. I promised I would come back to help.

The Irony is not lost on me, but Now i feel like the idiot again, like i've gone and shoved a knife into the back of the place, I don't want this place to close down. This place is a survivor, and even if I can't get Ben to come back, as much as the loss would be hard, I still don't think DSF should close.

Just thought I should let you guys know.