Doctor Who 4x14 - "The Next Doctor"
 

Cyberking.

Cyberzilla!

My thoughts exactly.

I thought it was a good story, some scenes were a bit slow! The whole Morrisey story and its revalation all seemed a bit out of place and went away from the Cybermen a bit!

Danny could I ask, do you think RTD is a bad writer or he just isn't a good writer for the Doctor Who you think is best? I'll never agree I think he's a great writer (although he has his moments) I've just never been quite sure what part of his writing you dislike!

It looked cool enough ... thats about it! They shouldn't call it a cyberking its a war machine. And theres more than one (in the Time War by the sounds of things)

A great set up for the specials I thought would be the Cyberking falling on London and changing the future. Ahh well!

Something about the specials, No TARDIS and no Companion!
Disappointed Murray didn't make anything that outstanding.

I gave it 8. Too slow at parts but the end chemistry with Morrisey and Tennant was great!

Danny's said before that he doesn't like RTD's flair for drama and epicness, which he thinks doesn't go so well in Doctor Who. I tend to agree.

Oh right ok! I'd like to check out Bob and Rose or Second Coming and see what they are like, see if its similar to his Who writing!

Avoid Queer as Folk at all costs. It's got gay sex in it.

... on-screen?

Yes. And anal licking.

So it's basically porn?

I didn't know things like that could air on TV up there. Sure can't down here...

Good:
+ David Morrissey, would've made a good 11th Doctor
+ The Cybusmen seemed appropriately Steampunk for the 19th century

Bad:
- Cybershades, they looked too much like Shag Rugs
- LOL GIANT ROBOT plot derailment
- All the hype was for nothing

In summary:

I'll be glad to see Russel T. go. But, I'm hopeful that pairing him with another writer will keep him under control for the duration of the specials.

And, if you're going to go over the top, have it at least be something that makes sense within the confines of the plot. It would've been nice if the Cyberking was used in a plot that actually called for the use of a giant robot, like in the 1974 serial "Robot."

Well no it's a deep insight into the life of being young and gay in a modern world. I was unable to sit all the way through the show to unravel the layers of themes and take in the deep psychological analysis of the modern homosexual mentality. Because there was gay sex arse licking filth.

Why do you have to bring down a perfectly acceptable opinion of a TV show by making stupid, immature jokes about its writer?

Ya spaz.

Though I haven't seen the episode, I have imagined the Cyber Controller as a giant robot being piloted by Lumic or something. :p

Just bringing this conversation into its relevant topic;

I never said it was shit. I thought it was actually pretty good, as far as RTD episodes go. But like MW said, the Cyberking derailed it. There is no way in hell I can imagine the Cybermen going to war in giant robots; especially ones that look like Rita Repulsa used her wand on a Cyberman.

Really, my only gripe with the episode is that RTD almost ruined the Cybermen like he has the Daleks. Thankfully I don't think he was succesful. Otherwise Morrissey managed to pretty much hold up the episode; so I think RTD owes him a big hug or a dollar or something.

If they pulled a Colin Baker and made Morrisey the actual next Doctor, though, I would be 100% supportive. I think he would be great.

EDIT: One more thing. Seeing the Cybermen on screen again, almost being wrecked by RTD, makes me more than interested in doing our audios again, in a 'if you want something done right, do it yourself' sort of way.

I voted fair as i honestly can;t deicde on what I think

On one hand David Morissey was brilliant, so touching and wonderful

then it was the giant Cyberman. I just can't deicide.

Extremely thick human drama with some sex thrown in?

Yeah sounds like RTD.

Oh, wow, is that all? Sounds like we have a real winner on our hands!

As far as RTD, and especially Christmas RTD, episodes go, it was one of the better ones. Just remember how the last series ended.

This one actually had some substance in that whole 'next doctor' thing. The Cybermen part was clearly just for the entertainment of the kiddies watching on Christmas.

But there's probably no point discussing this with you, anyway. You decided you hated it before you even watched it.

Oh, no, I absolutely agree with you. However "better than some of the shit we've been stuck with" doesn't mean I should be hailing it as brilliant. It was still shit, just slightly less shit than some of what we've gotten before.

Exactly my point. I hate Christmas specials for exactly that reason -- too much of it is simply thrown in for a laugh or thrown in to make the kiddies go "ooh," and then that shit becomes an indelible part of canon.

Bullshit, although this is why I've stopped discussing my opinions. No one listens to them anymore and no one believes I even take the episodes seriously enough to rate them. People think I just come, go, rate badly, then go "Next!" That's bullshit. I give every episode a chance. I don't expect it to be good, because look at RTD's track record, but I do go into them hoping they won't be absolutely godawful. The problem is, even his better ones are still pretty shitty, and generally not Doctor Who. I respected this one enough to give it a 3/10. Turn Left, Journey's End, etc. all got negative ratings because I hated them so much. This was a definite and significant step higher than those.

But I watched this with my mom, brother, and best friend, and when that fucking Cyberking rose up out of the water, everyone in the room burst out laughing. My mom almost fell out of her chair at how fucking pathetic the goddamn thing was. (And obviously I'm not talking about the CG, which wasn't bad. I'm talking about the very idea of a GIANT FUCKING CYBERKING ROBOT WALKING ABOUT FIRING ITS LASER AND MISSILES. WHAT THE FUCK.) I don't know how the fuck you expect me to rate an episode with that abomination in it higher than a 3/10. My brother and my best friend both thought that I was being too generous with a 3, and thought it deserved RTD's usual 1 or 2 rating, but I stuck by it anyway.

So you all can go eat up whatever RTD spoon feeds you, while I tear down his episodes for the abominable trash that they are. I genuinely don't know how the people I associate with, who are supposed to be good friends and intellectual equals, can enjoy this garbage. I really don't. It makes me wonder about my choice in friends sometimes.

But the bottom line is that I do go into these episodes with an open mind, and I rate based on what I see, not based on any preconceptions I have of RTD. There are still RTD episodes that I would rate highly (even 8/10 or higher), so your little belief that I'm on some sort of stupid vindictive crusade against everything the man writes automatically is completely unfounded and frankly pisses me off.

As I said above, this is exactly why I don't bother to articulate my opinions anymore -- because I know no one shares them, and everyone just assumes I'm just bashing RTD automatically because that's what I do, not because I genuinely hate the bullshit he puts out and calls episodes.

At least you guys actually found it amusing, deriving some form of enjoyment out of Cyberzilla. I sank deeper into my chair and gave a choked sigh when it happened.

To be fair, it wasn't the BBC that made the hype. It was fans and everyone else, excited by the title. After reading RTDs book The title was chosen before Tennant announced he was leaving so it was all a coincidence that it sounded like Morrisey was taking over from Tennant.


From things you said it did sound like you decided it was shit before you watched it.

This is NuWho. I guess really, we have to get over it because there isn't much we can do!

I think its good that your still comparing your results to other NuWho episodes and I understand you give them all a chance!

If I were watching it alone instead of with family and friends who had a sense of humor about it all, that probably would have been my reaction as well.

Not particularly relevant. There was hype; it didn't live up to it. His point stands.

Untrue. David Tennant had made his decision months before he announced it to the public, and RTD was in on it all along. They had made a deal that they would both leave at the same time. So RTD most definitely did know that Tennant would be leaving at the time he named the special. Whether he knew the public would know by the time it aired is another issue.

I had low expectations. Can you blame me? The Runaway Bride and Voyage of the Damned being the last two Christmas specials, and Partners in Crime, Turn Left, and Journey's End being among the most recent RTD episodes we've gotten, I don't think it was unreasonable of me not to have much hope. I still gave it a chance, and it still let me down. Miraculously I somehow have still not yet reached the point where I stop giving it a chance entirely, even though I keep saying and thinking that I should do so.

All we can do is rate the episodes badly and complain as loudly as we can, which is what I endeavor to do.

Thank you.

Im unashamed to say I didn't even bother watching, although I guess that's my level of interest in Doctor Who thesedays...

I don't blame you at all. I almost wish I could separate myself from Doctor Who to that level -- the new series, at least, until the Moffat era begins. I don't know why I continue to subject myself to it in some kind of pointless hope that it will improve before Steven Moffat takes over.

But I dont out right despise the RTD era like you do, it's a bit of a mystery to me why I suddenly dont care that much.

Just an inexplicable loss of interest? It happens...

I don't, and I don't know why you think I do. For some reason you act as if any positive mention of anything anyone you don't like (RTD and Murray, for example) is some kind of personal attack on you. It got on my nerves enough last time that I decided to just get myself banned. Seriously, you need to chill the fuck out and get over yourself, especially considering we actually agree with you most of the time.

See, here we go again with the personal attacks. It's just a fucking TV show; entertainment, and we treat it as such. As much as you might not think so, some of us still saw entertainment value in it, which is the whole fucking point of the show. I'd prefer if it wasnt so rediculous, and I'm definitely looking forward to what Moffat does with the show, but I don't take this shit so seriously that I'm going to rant and cry like a fucking baby because it wasnt the best thing I've ever seen in my life.

The Episode for me was ok up until Cyberzilla. I didn't get the Cybershades though.

I don't treat positive mentions of RTD and Murray as a personal attack on me. I treat posts like this as a personal attack on me:

It wasn't until then that I got riled up into making a pissy and long-winded post. I kept quiet for the most part up until then.

Two things wrong with that: 1) I didn't say anything until you started jumping to the wrong conclusion about my opinions, and I don't see how responding to such an attack accordingly can be described as "needing to get over myself," and 2) the benefit of this being my site is that I don't have to get over myself, and you all kind of just have to deal with it.

Once again, I said practically nothing until you made your post condemning my opinion. I kept my mouth shut because I don't feel like wasting my energy articulating an opinion that I don't think anyone here will share, nor do I feel like being condemned for something that isn't the case, which is that "I just hate everything RTD does automatically." I was perfectly happy never to open my mouth at all. The only post I did make was highlighting an amusing wording from your post. I felt no need to make any commentary on the episode at all.

And I love how you think I'm crying and ranting because it's "not the best thing I've ever seen." If that was all this episode was guilty of, I would have been praising it up and down. It's absolute, utter fucking garbage that tramples on the memory of the most beloved TV shows, ideas, and characters I have ever been exposed to. You're damn right I take offense to what RTD is doing to it. In my view, Doctor Who should never have been brought back at all. Now that it has, and it's being butchered to a slow and painful death, yeah, I'm gonna moan about it. This is my site and I'm bloody well entitled to it. Being here and reading about it is your choice.

I'm hoping this will lead to a better understanding of each other so this doesn't happen again instead of RV leaving again.

Things kinda picked up a little bit when he came back, you know?

I don't want him to leave. I'm just saying he kind of has to deal with my rants when I make them, especially when he starts the damn things.

I realize that, I was only making a comment.

And I quote, from here;

As they say in Elementary School; check yourself before you wreck yourself.

1) Talking about posts made only after watching the episode and formulating a proper opinion.

2) Both statements were valid anyway, so big whoop.

I don't think you understand. I'm talking about posts you made that support my assumption that you decided you hated the episode before you even watched it. I didn't pull that out of my ass.

David Morrisey made it more enjoyable to watch than it should have been.

Hi, by the way. ;)

Ah, I see where you're getting confused. You don't understand the difference between commenting on a preview and prejudging the episode.

Also, just because I assume an episode is going to suck doesn't mean I don't give it a chance when I watch it. I can do both you know. Maybe you or others cannot separate yourself from your preconceptions, but I can.

I also tell myself it'll probably suck so that it doesn't hurt so bad when it actually does.

Welcome back, buddy. Good to see you around again.

Agreed about Morrissey. He, at the very least, was great.

You know I think that explains everything. I gave up on Doctor Who long ago, and so I found this episode enjoyable because I don't expect anything from Doctor Who anymore. It's like a mildly amusing distraction between installments of Torchwood.

Now, if they ruin Torchwood (and all signs point to they are) then I'll probably end up exactly like you are atm.