Atonement for our behaviour

Chris Britton · #1 June 1, 2008, 4:14 PM

I have been chatting to Ben on MSN, and he has allowed me to see that a lot of my behaviour towards a certain person on this board has been nothing short of disgraceful. I am expecting backlash for this, probably because for my doing a U-Turn on my actions and also because I have been, to put simply 'an asshole of the highest calibre'.

The person I am talking about is our very own James P, that certain member of the forums who since his introduction here has been the result of many memes, but ultimately a lot of poor and disgusting treatment, which has gotten to a point now which i think is unacceptable. The irony of posting this is not lost on me, I've been at the forefront of most of the bullying, and upon reflection I am filled with my own disgust and sadness at what I have said. These forums is heavily influenced by Doctor Who but I feel that a certain few of us, myself included, have been acting very un-doctor-ly.

I'm admitting to my own failings right here. I also remember when RV and me got into a spat over the nature of my own posting, I tried to learn form what was said and to become a better member of the forums. I should have realized this much earlier, but when James was reacting to what was said about him, I could see me in those posts. I forgot until now, when ben reminded me, that I would never and tolerated such things aimed at me I am aware he has not learned from what we tried to advise him on earlier, which resulted in the poor treatment aimed right at him. However there is a line, we crossed that ages ago. Since when did we tolerate threads being made for the purpose of taking the piss out of a member, when did we start allowing ourselves to be swept up in cyber-bullying? Have we forgotten what happened when Daryl came on, and the treatment we got from him and his friends, whos to say we are any better now, myself included.

I regret now, and quite badly that I have allowed myself to be the person who was firing off insults to him, and that It took until now for me to open my eyes again. I saw that Ben was not posting as he was ashamed to post on the board, and I saw Ronnie standing up for him in the 101 reasons topic quite witty-wise, and other members have tried to stick up for him. I am going to be in trouble for what I have done, and what I post here now, but that will be the weight of my own actions bearing down on me, and I am ready to accept what I have done.

When did the forums turn from a haven for all of us, a place where we could come and be ourselves without any problems, to a breeding ground for people to fight off anyone with deadly force who does not fit the type expected of a typical DSF member? have we really fallen this far? I know I have. We have become something we never wanted to go near, we have started to go down a place we all wanted to avoid. I won't point fingers at anyone, because I am one of those people who has behaved in a disgraceful and disgusting manner.this place was supposed to be a haven for the outcasts in society, but our secret society has now become the idiots that pick on everyone else.

You can say what you want about what I have posted about, but here is one member who's turning around, seen the light, seen the magnitude of his actions, and is realizing what he has done, and wants to put a stop to this course of action, to say 'No More' I don't expect instant forgiveness or absolution, but we all need to see what we have done. james made the effort, as was said before; "He wrote those scripts because thats all he got back." he joined a place because he loved Doctor Who, and we forced him out because he was just himself. I won't soon forget what I did, This is not the DSF I know and love, and I hope we all see what we did wrong, so we can have it back.

Ben Dawson · #2 June 1, 2008, 4:19 PM

I'm backing Chris 100% percent on this, some of the attacks that have been aimed at James P. has been disgusting.
I mean, here is a guy who joined a forum, hoping to make new friends, and thinking that he'd meet people like himself...but all he found was that he was outcasted for being himself.
I mean, Daryl Jones and his friends, they were people who deserved to be outcasted, as they had no respect for the forums. But James P. does, I don't see him TRYING to upset any body, or talking using text speak, OR turning the forums into an instant messenger. All he's done is try and settle in, and you guy have pulled him to bits.
I am DEEPLY ashamed at all of you for all this. I used to consider this place a safe haven, a 2nd home, but over the last few days, I've been posting less and less because I've found that it's become place of poison, and that makes me deeply unhappy. And because of this, I have actually been seriously considering leaving the forums, because I've found everyone is starting to turn into chavs (by attempting to destroy or ridicule anything that isn't like them), and that is something I REALLY hate.
I hope that I'll see some changes after this, because I don't find any pleasure in being part of a society that does something like this.

Superkid11 · #3 June 1, 2008, 4:31 PM

I decided not to say anything because I thought there was noting to be done for it, but the fact that he's been taking crap for being himself is pretty fucked up.

Chris Britton · #4 June 1, 2008, 4:33 PM

Originally Posted by Superkid11

I decided not to say anything because I thought there was noting to be done for it, but the fact that he's been taking crap for being himself is pretty fucked up.

<nods> You did nothing wrong, it;s a case now of stopping this action and cleaning up the mess a few of us made by causing these problems.

MI7 · #5 June 1, 2008, 4:38 PM

To be fair while the guy was attacked in an unprovoked fashion at first he really made no attempts to better himself and continued posting absolute rubbish. Any attempts he made at defending himself were also thoroughly immature and seemingly designed to cause offense back at the person attacking him.

Chris has nothing to apologise for, really.

Chris Britton · #6 June 1, 2008, 4:41 PM

Originally Posted by MI7

To be fair while the guy was attacked in an unprovoked fashion at first he really made no attempts to better himself and continued posting absolute rubbish. Any attempts he made at defending himself were also thoroughly immature and seemingly designed to cause offense back at the person attacking him.

Chris has nothing to apologise for, really.

I'm still going to go back and delete all the posts I made, that I can find which were aimed at him.

Ben Dawson · #7 June 1, 2008, 4:43 PM

Why should he be mature, when everybody else isn't being?

Jez · #8 June 1, 2008, 4:44 PM

I am also in full support of Chris. I made the mistake of giving up trying to stop this behaviour.

This needs to stop immediately.

Superkid11 · #9 June 1, 2008, 4:47 PM

Fact is he's just recently turned 13. I was annoying back then.

I tend to not want to read his posts because of this, it makes me cringe seeing somebody act the way I did. But there's really nothing wrong with that.

Danny Stewart · #10 June 1, 2008, 4:56 PM

Originally Posted by MI7

To be fair while the guy was attacked in an unprovoked fashion at first he really made no attempts to better himself and continued posting absolute rubbish. Any attempts he made at defending himself were also thoroughly immature and seemingly designed to cause offense back at the person attacking him.

Chris has nothing to apologise for, really.

I'm sorry, but I have to agree with Tom. James P. brought this on himself to a large degree, and while it may have been undeserved at first, the way he responded to everything completely brought on all our subsequent behavior. We're not bad people, but I don't feel like we have reason to feel too bad about any of this. This is my community and I'm selective about who I want around, and he made no effort to improve himself nor did he just decide to up and leave. Either would have been helpful. As far as I'm concerned, this is his doing and his problem. If he doesn't like it, he's welcome to not spend his time online here of all places.

MI7 · #11 June 1, 2008, 4:58 PM

Originally Posted by Ben Dawson

Why should he be mature, when everybody else isn't being?

No one else was mature because he wasn't, not despite of it. Why should everybody else be mature when he wasn't.

I'm all for people being themselves, to a point. Feel free to destroy all evidnce of your involvement in this but really there is no need to. Plenty of new members join this place and fit in just fine while being themselves. Hell, James Minty is bullied by everyone all the time but has anyone "seen the light" and left him alone? No. And does he seem to mind? No. He gets on with it and even insults people back but christ at least the guy is reasonably mature about it and doesn't end up making giant huge posts all in fucking caps or red or underline or something. It's all about how people here carry themselves.
TBH I think Lenin or whoever started this thing needs to seriously consider whether they're right here. Apparently James P can "be himself" without retribution but those who dislike it and then tease him can't then "be themselves". Whichever way you stand on this issue you're a hypocrite, basically.

Ben Dawson · #12 June 1, 2008, 4:59 PM

Well, if he bothers you THAT much, then why didn't you just delete him yourself?
Jamie Minty isn't bullied half as much as James has been, and James has been at the fore-front of severe bullying in my opinion.
The problem is, you guys didn't encourage him to change, you rather sharply told him.

Chris Britton · #13 June 1, 2008, 5:00 PM

Originally Posted by Ben Dawson

Well, if he bothers you THAT much, then why didn't you just delete him yourself.

Agreed, does not take much to delete him if you hate him so much. the fact your endorsing this sort of bullying Danny is suprising. I'm just as bad for allowing myself to do so, so i probably am a hippocrite, but this sort of thing can't go on.

Kody · #14 June 1, 2008, 5:01 PM

I'd like to toss my hat into this as well.

When James came to the board, I was very nice to the lad and tried to help him out. He continued to put his foot in his mouth, insult people left and right and not take ANY of our advice in the long term.

This ended up with even myself snapping back at him, when it became obvious (at least to me) that he seemed to be seeking attention with no intention of bettering himself.

Trust me, the irony of all this isn't lost on me and all that. But like others said, he ended up bringing this on himself even after we attempted to guide him.

It really sucks that members here are feeling like they can't log on because of this.. and I don't want that at all. But like Danny said, we're not bad people, but it's not our duty to accept everyone that comes out of the internet into this community. Some times you just don't fit.

I'm a HUGE believer in "be yourself". But hey, sometimes that doesn't work with a certain crowd, so you go find a new crowd where it does work.

*shrugs*

MI7 · #15 June 1, 2008, 5:02 PM

Originally Posted by Ben Dawson

Well, if he bothers you THAT much, then why didn't you just delete him yourself.

What's the point in deleting him? That solves nothing. He would rejoin under the same name and the whole thing would start over.

Leaving him on the forums at least gives him a chance to stop his immaturity and go some way toward bettering himself.

Danny Stewart · #16 June 1, 2008, 5:02 PM

Originally Posted by Ben Dawson

Well, if he bothers you THAT much, then why didn't you just delete him yourself.

That's just it -- he doesn't bother me. He's entertaining as hell. We've had so many great posts and threads come out of this, and a lot of great laughs too. Deleting him would have deprived us of those.

Jez · #17 June 1, 2008, 5:03 PM

You cannot tell me you failed to see the decline in the quality of posting over recent weeks, as well as the increase of abuse and bullying? Whether he brought it upon himself or not, when he first posted here it was with good intentions and not with the aim to be "annoying".

After his initial posts, a few members attacked him. He responded as human-nature determines - aggressively. One thing led to another, and it's ended up into a giant flame ball. Ironically, he's actually stepped back and ignored a lot of the recent abuse, showing more maturity than those who commit the abuse.

Is this community one that respects individuals for who they are? Or is the narrow-minded, medieval way of thinking and acting to take precedence?

Kody · #18 June 1, 2008, 5:10 PM

http://www.dannystewart.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=8968

His 'Hello' thread. You'll notice most members greeted him happily, with a lot of people offering advice. RV was being the RV that we know and love.

Even James FIRST post in that thread is just asking for flaming, though. I sometimes wondered if it was a member on another account, doing it to mess with us.

It's almost TOO obvious at times.

Chris Britton · #19 June 1, 2008, 5:11 PM

Originally Posted by Danny Stewart

That's just it -- he doesn't bother me. He's entertaining as hell. We've had so many great posts and threads come out of this, and a lot of great laughs too. Deleting him would have deprived us of those.

So your happy to laugh at another persons misfortune just because they are different to you. Thats still bullying Danny, and I know your better then that, I can't believe you would keep another member around just to laugh at them. I'm behind what Jez said, I'm tempted to take a sabbatical like Ronn, but that would be accepting defeat. Would you have accepted Daryl doing this sort of thing? The irony in your post is so obvious, we are no better then him now.

MI7 · #20 June 1, 2008, 5:12 PM

Originally Posted by Jez

After his initial posts, a few members attacked him. He responded as human-nature determines - aggressively. One thing led to another, and it's ended up into a giant flame ball. Ironically, he's actually stepped back and ignored a lot of the recent abuse, showing more maturity than those who commit the abuse.

One member attacked him - RV. The other members simply told him to ignore RV. Did he listen and actually like, take their advice? No.
He claimed to have Aspergers syndrome (and to be honest, knowing Chris firsthand I seriously, seriously, seriously doubt that he did.) yet later he outright attacked Chris, the other member with aspergers, for trying to back him up.

I suggest everyone rereads his intro topic instead of simply trying to remember it with their guilt-tinted spectacles on.