Remixes Versus New Arrangements

[Jez]

Wow Danny, I love The Zero Room. It's brilliant.

I have less love for The Lost Dimension although I can't quite put my finger on what it is about it....

I like your Glynn recreation, the other two seem....strange. Especially the section before the bridge in your Howell recreation. Were you at Blackpool or something? Seaside organs FTL.

For me, the original Howell theme is the best. There's enough "thump" in the background to almost give it a percussive side. I like my thumps.

EDIT: I just found my first ever attempt at it. Timing's a bit dodgy. :S

[Ronnie Rowlands]

Good to hear your "Derbyshire" one again Danny, I haven't heard it since 2005 How long have you been working on them for?

[Danny Stewart]

Well, "The Zero Room" took probably two months, and "The Lost Dimension" perhaps two weeks. As for the recreations, they have been continually evolving for months, but I haven't worked on them since at least five or six months ago.

Originally Posted by Jez

Wow Danny, I love The Zero Room. It's brilliant.

Thanks, Jez. It's probably my best remix so far.

Originally Posted by Jez

I have less love for The Lost Dimension although I can't quite put my finger on what it is about it....

Well, if you could figure it out and tell me, that would help.

Originally Posted by Jez

I like your Glynn recreation, the other two seem....strange. Especially the section before the bridge in your Howell recreation. Were you at Blackpool or something? Seaside organs FTL.

You mean my melody 1 instrument? Yes, it definitely needs replacing. I have a much better way to do it now but I think it would be rather a nightmare implementing it into my existing project. As I said, the whole theme needs to be started from scratch.

Originally Posted by Jez

For me, the original Howell theme is the best. There's enough "thump" in the background to almost give it a percussive side. I like my thumps.

You mean the second layer of the bassline, yes.

Originally Posted by Jez

EDIT: I just found my first ever attempt at it. Timing's a bit dodgy. :S

Any chance of sharing it?

[Ronnie Rowlands]

Wow. 2005. Can't believe I've known you that long.

[Superkid11]

WOW! I really like the Zero room, well done! The Howell recreation made me feel a bit nostalgic because it reminded me of my first Who serial. Ressurection of the Daleks. (Nostalgic is a strange word to use because It's really only been a couple years since I saw it. There was kind of a huge time gap actually between the first two episodes of it and the second. We all watched 1 and 2 one night then later that year I guess we watched the other 2.) A lot of themes do that to me though. =P Strangely the actual Howell theme doesn't make me feel as nostalgic...

I've wanted to take a whack at this but I don't have any means of doing it. All I've got is the free version of Wave Pad.

[Dalek104]

The Lost Dimension is very good. As Dom said, it's really impressive!

Although your Howell and Keffster theme recreations are incredible, your version of the Glynn theme is definitely the best, in my opinion.

As for The Zero Room, I believe it is a piece of absolute magnificence with a sprinkle of great!

[Jez]

Originally Posted by Danny Stewart

Thanks, Jez. It's probably my best remix so far.

Of the one's I've heard - agreed.

Originally Posted by Danny Stewart

Well, if you could figure it out and tell me, that would help.

It might be the voc/choir pad. I dunno, but I don't feel it's entirely suitable for the Doctor Who theme.

Originally Posted by Danny Stewart

You mean my melody 1 instrument? Yes, it definitely needs replacing. I have a much better way to do it now but I think it would be rather a nightmare implementing it into my existing project. As I said, the whole theme needs to be started from scratch.

Yeah. It sounds a bit like an organ. I normally like organs but the context isn't right for me here.

Originally Posted by Danny Stewart

You mean the second layer of the bassline, yes.

Haha, yeah, I couldn't really tell because the quality of the theme isn't all that great but it would make sense that it is a second bass layer.

Originally Posted by Danny Stewart

Any chance of sharing it?

Certainly not publicly. I'm not even sure if I've rendered it yet, I'll take a look tomorrow.

[The Moonlit Door]

Well that's brilliant to have a dialogue with Glynn himself.

Originally Posted by Danny Stewart

Probably my best one is titled "The Zero Room," … Dominic Glynn called this version "most impressive - moody and classy" when I shared it with him several months ago.

Yeah, it's got much more mystery about it than some synthesized versions. They tend to drain all that a bit, but you've managed to keep it in this and all of the other ones here.

Originally Posted by Danny Stewart

…The McCulloch one is also a more loose recreation than the other two because I'm no great fan of Keff McCulloch or any of his work.

If the tinny sound of that theme could be toned right down, it would sound so much better, because underneath that it's mysterious and quirky and potentially a really good theme. There was a theme on Whomix a year or two ago blending all the official TV themes together and the version on that sounded completely different. It was much lower and fatter and it sounded amazing. If only someone could do that with the whole thing.

Originally Posted by Danny Stewart

The reason the Glynn one sounds a fair bit better than the other two (at least in my opinion) is because I worked closely with Dominic Glynn himself to create it. His advice and assistance was invaluable in perfecting many of the sounds, and it's my proudest recreation to date.

Yes, some of the sounds are extremely close to what he did. Actually, is it true he only had a few days to produce his version of the theme?

[Danny Stewart]

Originally Posted by The Moonlit Door

Well that's brilliant to have a dialogue with Glynn himself.

I agree. He's a great guy and a great musician. I've had the pleasure of listening to some of his latest work and it's just magnificent. He always takes the time to talk to me and help me with whatever I'm working on too. In fact, I'm heading to England for two weeks this coming Wednesday, and Dom has agreed to let me come by his studio for a visit. It should be terrific!

Originally Posted by The Moonlit Door

Yeah, it's got much more mystery about it than some synthesized versions. They tend to drain all that a bit, but you've managed to keep it in this and all of the other ones here.

Thanks very much!

Originally Posted by The Moonlit Door

If the tinny sound of that theme could be toned right down, it would sound so much better, because underneath that it's mysterious and quirky and potentially a really good theme. There was a theme on Whomix a year or two ago blending all the official TV themes together and the version on that sounded completely different. It was much lower and fatter and it sounded amazing. If only someone could do that with the whole thing.

It's nothing special really... he just lowered the pitch down five semitones to the pitch of the original Derbyshire theme. I quickly replicated what he did to it, and you can hear what the whole thing would sound like here.

Originally Posted by The Moonlit Door

Yes, some of the sounds are extremely close to what he did. Actually, is it true he only had a few days to produce his version of the theme?

I heard the same rumor, and I asked him about it. This is what he told me:

Originally Posted by Dominic Glynn

Forgive me if I have forgotten many of the details - it was twenty years ago (my god can that be right??). As I can remember, John Nathan-Turner had already commissioned me to write the incidentals for episodes 1 - 4 and the offer of re-doing the theme came right at the last moment. The theme was needed before the incidental music (so it could be dubbed on to the episodes as they were edited) so it was t he first thing I worked on. I had very little equipment. I had got the job on the basis of some demo cassettes I had sent in to JNT, but I didn't have the gear to do a professional job. I had to rush out and buy my 8-track tape machine and mixer and get the theme recorded and mixed within the week (a little more than four days!).

I think the main difference with many other versions of the theme is that it was actually played by hand onto tape. The original versions were created using tape loops and oscillators, while later versions used sequencers and computers. My version was created without sequencing of any kind. Thanks for your comments on the finished piece!

[Dalek104]

Originally Posted by Danny Stewart

I agree. He's a great guy and a great musician. I've had the pleasure of listening to some of his latest work and it's just magnificent. He always takes the time to talk to me and help me with whatever I'm working on too. In fact, I'm heading to England for two weeks this coming Wednesday, and Dom has agreed to let me come by his studio for a visit. It should be terrific!

Wow. What an honour!

[Danny Stewart]

Originally Posted by Dalek104

Wow. What an honour!

Indeed! I'll post pictures here for everybody to see.

[Dalek104]

Originally Posted by Danny Stewart

I'll post pictures here for everybody to see.

Great! I'm really looking forward to them!

[The Moonlit Door]

Originally Posted by Danny Stewart

It's nothing special really... he just lowered the pitch down five semitones to the pitch of the original Derbyshire theme. I quickly replicated what he did to it, and you can hear what the whole thing would sound like here.

That's amazing, it does make a massive difference doesn't it? A lot more moody and interesting. Thanks very much for that Danny. This was my music watching the show as a kid, so I've also got the benefit of nostalgia when I hear it.

To hear Dominic Glynn's own comments about the theme is wonderful. Reading what his brief and timescale was, it was a phenomenal job under the circumstances. It always bugs me with the Big Finish audios actually that they use his extended version of the theme and not the one used on TV, which I like better. It has more punch in the bassline and the first few notes follow a different pattern, making it more dramatic. They do the same with Peter Howell's theme as well — the sting at the beginning is from his extended version and is less stark.

I had no idea that another theme had been produced and used only for The Trial of a Time Lord season until I watched the story on video. It was quite a surprise, and I think it fitted Colin Baker very well too.

[Danny Stewart]

Originally Posted by The Moonlit Door

That's amazing, it does make a massive difference doesn't it? A lot more moody and interesting. Thanks very much for that Danny. This was my music watching the show as a kid, so I've also got the benefit of nostalgia when I hear it.

I understand. Keff has a lot going on in his theme, much of which sounds cool. Sadly, it's the main instruments (bass and lead) that let it down, not its backing.

Originally Posted by The Moonlit Door

To hear Dominic Glynn's own comments about the theme is wonderful. Reading what his brief and timescale was, it was a phenomenal job under the circumstances. It always bugs me with the Big Finish audios actually that they use his extended version of the theme and not the one used on TV, which I like better. It has more punch in the bassline and the first few notes follow a different pattern, making it more dramatic. They do the same with Peter Howell's theme as well — the sting at the beginning is from his extended version and is less stark.

You're absolutely right, and that's always bothered me about the Big Finish releases as well. However I was curious about it, so this was another thing I asked Dominic Glynn about, at least as far as his own theme goes. He said:

Originally Posted by Dominic Glynn

Probably because they had a copy of the full length versions and I didn't supply them with my copies of the TV versions

As you may or may not know, the Dominic Glynn opening and closing themes have sadly never been commercially released in any capacity, even though all the other themes (including various opening and closing edits) have surfaced over the years. I asked him about that too, and he said:

Originally Posted by Dominic Glynn

Don't ask me why they weren't made available - ask the BBC!! I hope they will be available soon. Moves are afoot to put together some releases of old Dr Who music which hopefully will include them

However, I am fortunate enough to have heard Dom's original recordings of the full opening and closing themes. They sound truly astounding -- much better than anything that was ever heard on TV. Dom has requested that I keep to myself on this, but take my word for it -- his themes are much better than the televised broadcasts (or even VHS releases) would indicate!

[Dalek104]

Originally Posted by Danny Stewart

However, I am fortunate enough to have heard Dom's original recordings of the full opening and closing themes. They sound truly astounding -- much better than anything that was ever heard on TV. Dom has requested that I keep to myself on this, but take my word for it -- his themes are much better than the televised broadcasts (or even VHS releases) would indicate!

One word. Wow.

[The Moonlit Door]

Originally Posted by Danny Stewart

I understand. Keff has a lot going on in his theme, much of which sounds cool. Sadly, it's the main instruments (bass and lead) that let it down, not its backing.

Yes.

Originally Posted by Danny Stewart

As you may or may not know, the Dominic Glynn opening and closing themes have sadly never been commercially released in any capacity, even though all the other themes (including various opening and closing edits) have surfaced over the years. I asked him about that too, and he said:

Originally Posted by Dominic Glynn
Don't ask me why they weren't made available - ask the BBC!! I hope they will be available soon. Moves are afoot to put together some releases of old Dr Who music which hopefully will include them

Originally Posted by Danny Stewart

However, I am fortunate enough to have heard Dom's original recordings of the full opening and closing themes. They sound truly astounding -- much better than anything that was ever heard on TV. Dom has requested that I keep to myself on this, but take my word for it -- his themes are much better than the televised broadcasts (or even VHS releases) would indicate!

That's fantastic. Well let's hope the BBC does get in touch with him for the masters and releases them along with all the other themes.