Doctor Who 3x11 - "Utopia" - Page 2

Chris Britton · #21 June 17, 2007, 9:27 AM

I agree with M17, this is a 3 parter, so this is going to be a bit more like the serials we had in the old series, so lets give it a chance, things are just warming up. I am totally with MI7 on his point. It's like if you turn on F1 and you see the cars moving slowly in a line as they are on their warm up lap. You don;t say it;s poor or rushed, things are just getting started, stick around and let things develop.

And i notice people seem to be comparing Sir Derek Jacobi to John Simm. I think this is unfair as you are comparing an acclaimed actor to someone who has only been well known for the past few years, and besides, we have not gotten a good look at the Simm Master yet, so i personally thing people are running before they are walking, we have only seen the Simm Master for 5 minutes! Give the guy a chance and lets see how it goes, yes Jacobi played the Master superbly, with all the hallmarks of his profession, But lets look ahead here. guys, give him a chance, we gave David Tennant a chance, give John Simm a chance, he would not have been cast if he was not any good. We have not seen much of him, and we should be waiting until next weekend before we can comparing him to previous Masters, most of you are jumping the gun by about 7 days. Wait for the right time.

I do recall people were unhappy with David Tennant when he got cast as The Doctor, when we had not seen what he could do with the Doctor, sadly people are now doing this to John Simm. I saw him in Life on mars and i thought he was superb, i think he will make a great Master. As Danny always likes to encourage us to look forward and not back too much, as he did when the 10th Doctor appeared

I am hoping he might do the same here, as we are dealing with Time Lords

I personally think they stuck in Utopia to show a sense of Irony, as it shows The Master ( In human form ) Being a source of good, it shows what he might have been like had he not become evil, it gives us something to think about, It's drawing parallels for us guys

. It shows The Master could easily have been a Saviour or worlds, of life in general had he not been exposed to all that evil, it's trying to make us think that we can all influence the universe in different ways, it depends on the paths we choose. Yes, it was not technically The Master who saved Humanity, but just pay attention and think about it.

Personally, i think this is a lot of unfair criticism being aimed at the Actors and the plot when we are not giving them a chance, why can't we all just step back and get immersed in the story. Give them a chance. You can;t compare a knighted Actor to a newcomer so easily, you have to let them blend, David Tennant has given us a Doctor of the likes we have not seen since the great Tom Baker, now how can you say John Simm is a poor Master when he only got 5 minutes and little dialog compared to about 40 and lots for Sir Derek? Take one step back and just think about it. I'm quite surprised at some of the things said

Danny Stewart · #22 June 17, 2007, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by MI7

People bashing the storyline for apparently not making sense - don't forget that this is a three part story, and so this is only a third of the way through. We have no idea how this Utopia thing will play out in the last two episodes, especially considering the Doctor and co are now stuck on Malcassario and the Master took the Utopia co-ordinates disk with him.

I have not forgotten.

Also, I will say that the storyline did sit easier with me on second viewing. So now I'll upgrade the episode from "barely 9/10" to "stable 9/10."

Chris Britton · #23 June 17, 2007, 10:17 AM

I still think peoples negative views on this episode have been harsh and too quick. If someone will read what I put and respond to it.

Personally, I bet you all next week you will all be saying what a great episode it was and how John Simm was pretty darn good."

I'm going to give him a chance, i note Danny will as well, so lets all sit back and let things develop

lets enjoy the next 2 weeks, as thats all we will get for 5 months

Ross Hendrie · #24 June 17, 2007, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by Danny Stewart

Agreed with Ross here. The episode itself was actually quite disappointing.

What?! What!!! *dies*

Danny agreeing with me? Wow... Not that im complaining mind you lol.

I also agreed with the Jack/Doctor re-union, it didn't really explain well why the Doctor left Jack behind plus I thought they weren't very true to character. Although, it did explain how he ended up in certain places, such as the British Indian Army in the 1920s.

Chris Britton · #25 June 17, 2007, 11:45 AM

I do agree with Danny and Ross about the Captain jack bit, as that did not really explain it well, and it felt out of character somewhat. Hopefully that will be gone and forgotten by next week.

Ben Dawson · #26 June 17, 2007, 12:37 PM

I thought this episode was brilliant, in my opinion, the story wasn't REALLY about Utopia, that was only the sub-plot. I don't think it was rushed, I loved the radiation room scene between Cap'n Jack and the Doctor. And I thought it FINALLY tied up a lot of loose ends concerning Jack and why the Doctor left him, and how Jack got back.
What can I say? The Master, he's back, and it's about time. Derek Jacobi was brilliant, absolutely brilliant, especially when he's become the Master. I'm already liking John Simms' Master, and him acting like the Doctor after the regeneration actually sat well with me, remember guys, the original idea for the Master was the he was an evil version of the Doctor, a counterpart if you will. In fact, had Roger Delgado not have died, the Master would have turned out to be the Doctor's dark side (in one way or another). So in that sense, I think it's good, because it gives an enemy we can relate to like the Doctor, that we're closer to. I like that Idea because that makes us care about the villain more, and make us all the more glad when he makes a return like this.

Chris Britton · #27 June 17, 2007, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by Ben Dawson

I thought this episode was brilliant, in my opinion, the story wasn't REALLY about Utopia, that was only the sub-plot. I don't think it was rushed, I loved the radiation room scene between Cap'n Jack and the Doctor. And I thought it FINALLY tied up a lot of loose ends concerning Jack and why the Doctor left him, and how Jack got back.
What can I say? The Master, he's back, and it's about time. Derek Jacobi was brilliant, absolutely brilliant, especially when he's become the Master. I'm already liking John Simms' Master, and him acting like the Doctor after the regeneration actually sat well with me, remember guys, the original idea for the Master was the he was an evil version of the Doctor, a counterpart if you will. In fact, had Roger Delgado not have died, the Master would have turned out to be the Doctor's dark side (in one way or another). So in that sense, I think it's good, because it gives an enemy we can relate to like the Doctor, that we're closer to. I like that Idea because that makes us care about the villain more, and make us all the more glad when he makes a return like this.

So agreed with, glad to see you enjoyed it as much as me

Superkid11 · #28 June 17, 2007, 10:42 PM

I thought it was awesome, it didn't seem rushed to me at all. I figured he was going to be the Master but the way he showed up was way different from how I imagined... I guess it'll be explained later, but it looks like he grabbed himself a Time Lord body after somehow surviving the Eye of Harmony.

I can't wait to see the rest! OH WHY DO I HAVE TO WAIT WEEKS!? ;_;

... wait, the "accept my majesty" clip was from a classic episode?

Danny Stewart · #29 June 17, 2007, 10:53 PM

No, the "Destroy him! Then you will give your power to me!" clip was Roger Delgado's Master from The Daemons.

Superkid11 · #30 June 17, 2007, 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by Danny Stewart

No, the "Destroy him! Then you will give your power to me!" clip was Roger Delgado's Master from The Daemons.

That's probably what I actually heard and I just misheard it.

Danny Stewart · #31 June 17, 2007, 10:56 PM

No, you're thinking of the "The drums, the drums, the drums, the never ending drum beat. Open me, you human fool. Open the light and summon me and receive my majesty!" line, which was Derek Jacobi.

Chris Britton · #32 June 18, 2007, 5:23 AM

I thought there was one line which seemed more distinct, now thank to you i realized it was from a previous Master.

Im curious as to how the drums fit into all of this, but given the name of next weeks title, im guessing we will find out.

I will say, I do hope John Simm will make a great Master, but with the way Derek Jacobi preformed his role, that was the highlight of the episode, it shows what a cracking actor he is, and he was very immersing and when he opened the fob watch, that was one of TV's best moments. They have clips on you tube when shows the 10 or so minutes when he becomes The Master, and it just sends ripples down my spine.

Ronnie Rowlands · #33 June 18, 2007, 7:43 AM

Can I just ask again, has anyone got a clean copy or willing to remix the music first heard when derek jacobi is talking about the watch?

Danny Stewart · #34 June 18, 2007, 10:46 AM

I may take a crack at it, but I can't do anything at the moment. I'm actually in the process of rescoring the entire last 12 minutes or so of Utopia. Should be an interesting project.

Superkid11 · #35 June 18, 2007, 11:10 AM

I rather liked John Simm's performance. Yeah, Jacobi's low-key dark performance made a great old Master but Simm is a good young Master. I personally like that boyish excitability about him now. After all, isn't he supposed to think of his conflicts with The Doctor as a game? Besides, that personality makes him kind of like The Doctor.

Danny Stewart · #36 June 18, 2007, 11:46 AM

I can see that side of the argument. We'll see how it plays out.

Chris Britton · #37 June 18, 2007, 1:03 PM

Originally Posted by Danny Stewart

I may take a crack at it, but I can't do anything at the moment. I'm actually in the process of rescoring the entire last 12 minutes or so of Utopia. Should be an interesting project.

This I want to see, I thought the score was well done, but if you think you can make it better, then I want to see the results mate

You have caught both my eyes and ears on that little project

I agreed with that last comment before Dannys, if i recall, somewhere The Master did say he and the Doctor fuction together or smetihng like that?