Doctor Who 4x12 - "The Stolen Earth"

[Megan]

I MISSED ONE!

Under "Excruciatingly bad":
"It's like an outer-space facebook!"

Wow, RTD. Just wow.

[Josef Kenny]

Also how although Rose wasn't able to get in contact with a webcam, the laptop she is using undoubtedly has a microphone built in, so she should be able to speak audio-only over that.

[Danny Stewart]

Originally Posted by Alexus

Wow, Ron, your review was like reading Light Danny from a parallel universe where I understand his criticisms

I disagree with almost everything you said, but I understand why you said it and I applaud the cogent manner in which you did so. Vive la difference!

You know, I'm starting to find this crap pretty insulting. From what you're actually saying to your overuse of the word "cogent," I'm just getting tired of dealing with it. I constructed one of the most lengthy (and perfectly cogent) pieces I've ever written to attack Last of the Time Lords last year, and after seeing how poorly it went over, I just don't give enough of a shit to deconstruct this garbage all over again. And this likely won't even be the worst we'll have to deal with. The finale will probably manage to top it.

Originally Posted by Superkid11

I understand Danny's argument, he didn't really make much of one recently because he's already stated it more than once. His problem is that it's too epic. I realize that sounds like sarcasm but it isn't, it's stupidly epic and really fast performance makes it cease to look or feel like Doctor Who. And all the ridiculous human drama in Turn Left did the same thing.
Too fast, too much drama.

Well said, and thank you. That's the bottom line here -- this just isn't Doctor Who. I'm expecting Alexus to drop by with an oh-so-witty post asking "but doesn't it have the Doctor? the TARDIS? the Daleks?" Well yes, obviously it does. But it's perverted the entire concept of the series. Like Superkid has said above, it's too fast-paced and it's much, much too human-centered. Prior to the new series, we were never forced to meet or interact with a companion's family unless they were involved heavily with the main plot (the only examples I can even think of being Professor Waterfield from The Evil of the Daleks -- but he was never seen again, because he was killed off -- and Tegan's aunt from Logopolis -- who, wait for it, was also killed off never to be seen again). Even on the rare occasions that the Doctor did actually visit contemporary Earth, the companion didn't go running home to mommy and daddy every time. You want to travel with the Doctor, suck it up and stick with the Doctor. Otherwise, run home and GTFOMTB permanently.

Originally Posted by Superkid11

Though I didn't quite understand his argument on how it's going to somehow corrupt the entire continuity of Doctor Who from now on even though all the episodes sans for a lot of RTD's haven't been effected. The only "effect" is the Valiant being in the Sontaran Strategem.

The problem lies in the fact that these events have still happened within the confines of the Doctor Who universe. Any author can reference the events at any time, and it has all still happened from the Doctor's perspective. I have a major problem with obvious joke lines and concepts, put in solely to amuse RTD, now being entered into the official history of the show. It doesn't matter if no one ever mentions them again. They've happened, which damages the credibility of the show.

Originally Posted by Megan

Megan's Review

Megan and I watched this episode together over the phone (she's out of town this week), so this review was largely collaborative. I agree with every point she made, and with her overall view of the episode. However there were certain things that I feel weren't touched on enough. Here's some of the things that bothered me. (Just because I don't mention something doesn't mean it didn't bother me. First of all, Megan did an excellent job summing up most things, and second of all, as I said above, I don't feel like investing that much time and energy into picking apart this episode in a review that will be largely ignored and disagreed with.) So here goes.

- Vigilante Rose busting people's asses in the computer store. How preachy and pushily pretentious can you get? Thanks, RTD.
- While we're at it, Rose with giant gun looked fucking ridiculous. She didn't even use the damn thing practically ever. I would have much preferred that she would have had a smaller, more concealable weapon that she only took out when she needed. But that just wouldn't have been kickass enough, now would it?
- The Daleks' original message to Earth. Seriously?!?! You're about to subjugate a planet. Are you really going to contact them first just to say "Exterminate" 25 times? That might scare Jack and Sarah but what about random Army people who've never heard of the Daleks? That's a completely ridiculously meaningless message, and it's out of character for the Daleks. We've heard them deliver some frightening speeches before (like in The Dalek Invasion of Earth). This would have been a perfect opportunity for that. "This planet is now under Dalek control. Any resistance will be crushed." That kind of thing. Instead we got "EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE!" Yeah. I'm shaking.
- While we're on the subject of Dalek characterization... they were horrible in this episode. I showed it to my mom and she pointed out the same thing. The Daleks are supposed to be scary (and they can be very scary when used effectively). RTD uses Daleks purely for comic relief. These Daleks were a fucking joke. Nothing they said or did was scary in any way -- they were saying joke lines the whole time and just blasting random shit. And yet everyone acted like they were the scariest force in the universe. Maybe that's what they're supposed to be, but here I would have laughed at them. Yeah, they would have killed me for it, but it's not like they would have scared me into behaving myself.
- Supreme Dalek. Why do we need Davros and a Supreme Dalek? And why does the Supreme Dalek look and speak differently from all the other Daleks? What's the most basic and fundamental principle of a Dalek, kids? That's right -- a dislike for the unlike. So why the fuck are we going to make our leader so different from us? So we can turn on him when he pisses us off?
- Rose swaggering away from giant explosion. Again, pointless, unrealistic, and overly dramatic. Exactly what I've come to expect.
- Rose's whininess. Yeah, it's been mentioned. But it was so annoying it has to be mentioned again.
- The Last of the Time Lords phone call scene. Again -- mentioned already, but so bad it has to be mentioned again.
- The CGI in this episode was absolutely laughable. I literally collapsed with laughter from the phone waves being emitted from the Earth and the horrible wobbly TARDIS shaking through the waves trying to head towards Earth. Did someone forget to send the Mill a memo reminding them that they were making serious Doctor Who and not a Doctor Who parody? Honestly, after reading the script and all, I can see how they might get mixed up a little.
- The cliffhanger was annoying. Megan summed it up well. It's just RTD trying to fuck with people's minds, which just pisses me off.
- And finally, the giant WordArt "TO BE CONTINUED" at the end. Really? As if the cliffhanger weren't bad enough. I just can't take an episode seriously with that tacked on to the end of it. That may well be the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen.

So there you have it folks! Hope it meant something to you, but I'm not expecting much.

[MI7]

Just so you guys know, The Stolen Earth recevied an AI rating of 91 with a viewing figure of 7.4 million and currently has a 5/5 rating of 77.3% on DoctorWhoForum.com.

And so is officially the highest rated Doctor Who episode, ever. By a long margin .

[Danny Stewart]

Originally Posted by MI7

Just so you guys know, The Stolen Earth recevied an AI rating of 91 with a viewing figure of 7.4 million and currently has a 5/5 rating of 77.3% on DoctorWhoForum.com.

And so is officially the highest rated Doctor Who episode, ever. By a long margin .

Way to ruin my post's impact with your shitty little post afterwards.

And by the way, as I've said a thousand times before about audience appreciation and rating -- I DON'T GIVE A FLYING FUCK, AND IT WILL NEVER MAKE UP FOR HORRIBLE WRITING. You go take comfort in those figures if you wish. Don't ram them down our fucking throats.

[Alexus]

Originally Posted by Danny

[Justified anger]

Sorry if you felt I was rude, I recognise I can be a bit flippant. The problem I have is that every reason you hate these episodes is a reason that I enjoyed it, so it feels a bit silly to attack all your points, because in the end there is no imperical way of judging how good something is so we'd just both be headbutting a brick wall, so to speak.

Also, cogent cogent cogent

Oh, except I totally agree about every opinion you had on anything to do with Rose. The gun, the explosions, everything. God that annoyed me.

[Superkid11]

Originally Posted by Danny Stewart

Way to ruin my post's impact with your shitty little post afterwards.

Didn't ruin the impact for me. I actually laughed at your post... not because I thought it was bad or disagreed, but I loved how you wrote it. And it was too true. Even if you think your reviews go unappreciated, I sure do appreciate them.
I also appreciate that you actually kept count of how many times they said "EXTERMINATE" over the transmission.

I made this comparison last night: It's like RTD's trying to turn Doctor Who into Star Wars.

[MI7]

Originally Posted by Danny Stewart

Way to ruin my post's impact with your shitty little post afterwards.

And by the way, as I've said a thousand times before about audience appreciation and rating -- I DON'T GIVE A FLYING FUCK, AND IT WILL NEVER MAKE UP FOR HORRIBLE WRITING. You go take comfort in those figures if you wish. Don't ram them down our fucking throats.

Oh I don't have to take comfort in the figures. I take comfort in not actually being wrong . You, however, apparently do have to take comfort in figures. I see little other reason in you getting your friends to come here and rate down Turn Left.

You already have 26 years of generally overrated, badly produced, written and acted "drama" to watch (I do find it hilarious that you, lover of the 'classic' series feel you have the right to cite the special effectsin The Stolen Earth as grounds for the episode being shit, for christs sake), so please feel free go and watch that instead. If you're just going to sit and write endless posts criticising something that (again with the figures) the vast majority of people found to be not just good quality, but exceptional quality, then just don't watch the damn show instead of 'ramming' your own opinion down 'our fucking throats'.

And no, I'm not sorry if you find this overly aggressive. The post I'm replying to was spiteful and downright fucking rude.

[Kody]

Originally Posted by MI7

Rude post

The way you continue to address a program that we happen to love, along with waving viewing figures around like they are the base line to tell if we should enjoy something, is what I'd call 'downright fucking rude'.

I personally don't give a shit what the AI is or the viewing figures are, I care more if myself and my friends had enjoyable time watching it.

Let us have some deconstructing fun.

Originally Posted by MI7

Oh I don't have to take comfort in the figures. I take comfort in not actually being wrong . You, however, apparently do have to take comfort in figures. I see little other reason in you getting your friends to come here and rate down Turn Left.

1. Except you are wrong. This is program is something that people judge on a personal opinion, the viewing figures give you no right to act all high and mighty.

2. Yet another insult towards those of us that disliked Turn Left, even though we provided long thought out reviews and reasons we didn't like it. Yet your treating us like a little group of morons. Thanks.

3. Oh and WTF over mentioning what we rated Turn Left as well. Maybe we came here and rated the episode because there's a rating system in the discussion thread we dared to utilize? *GASP*

Originally Posted by MI7

You already have 26 years of generally overrated, badly produced, written and acted "drama" to watch (I do find it hilarious that you, lover of the 'classic' series feel you have the right to cite the special effectsin The Stolen Earth as grounds for the episode being shit, for christs sake), so please feel free go and watch that instead. If you're just going to sit and write endless posts criticising something that (again with the figures) the vast majority of people found to be not just good quality, but exceptional quality, then just don't watch the damn show instead of 'ramming' your own opinion down 'our fucking throats'.

1. Thanks for insulting a program we love so much. I'm sure you're just doing that because you want to try and get under peoples skin.

2. As for the quality of the FX, yes, the old series had low end FX. We are in 2008 now and FX that surpass the quality that are in Stolen Earth are EASILY done by such an impressive group as the Mill.

It's not wrong to point out they could have done way better. The effects were very lacking.

3. Danny, or anyone here isn't 'ramming' any opinion down anyones throat. We're saying what WE thought about the program, not saying anyone else has to. Get it right.

Originally Posted by MI7

Just so you guys know, The Stolen Earth recevied an AI rating of 91 with a viewing figure of 7.4 million and currently has a 5/5 rating of 77.3% on DoctorWhoForum.com.

And so is officially the highest rated Doctor Who episode, ever. By a long margin .

It got a AI of 91 because everyone loved the epic-ness and how everyone you could think of from Who was in there. *shrug* It's a known fact that general audiences want more EPIC-NESS and stuff like that in their TV and Movies now. Whatever.

Calling it the 'officially the highest rated Doctor Who episode, ever. By a long margin. ' - Is another weak flame/bait attempt in my eyes. Do you have rating figures for all the old episodes and all that? This episode doesn't hold a candle to some of the classics.

In summary, stop lashing out and spazzing without a coherent argument and settle down. You're a moderator here?

[Superkid11]

MI, did Danny ever ONCE say that he was voicing what most people should think it is? No, he posted his opinion like everyone else did. He's not ramming his opinion down anybody's throat, and that doesn't change no matter how much you disagree or how insistent he was in it. And here I thought you were on the same page. At least his argument was well written, you just said "AW LOOKIT HAS HIGH NUMBRS" and "1950s B MOVIE MIRITE"

The whole "go watch the old series if you don't like it!!" thing is stupid. This is a topic for posting reviews. How is that even related?
No wonder Danny didn't want to post a review. Sheesh. I happen to find them very insightful even if I disagree.

[Josef Kenny]

Originally Posted by MI7

overrated, badly produced, written and acted "drama" to watch

It's not drama. It's science fiction.

Originally Posted by Superkid11

It's like RTD's trying to turn Doctor Who into Star Wars.

RTD's trying to turn Doctor Who into The Star Wars Holiday Special.

[Kody]

Originally Posted by Superkid11

"AW LOOKIT HAS HIGH NUMBRS" and "1950s B MOVIE MIRITE"

Super, I love you, 4srs.

[Ronnie Rowlands]

Originally Posted by Megan

Under "Excruciatingly bad":
"It's like an outer-space facebook!"

Wow, RTD. Just wow.

I personally saw nothing up with that. It was a perfectly realistic comparison to make.

Originally Posted by Megan

-CGI = win, apparently.

Well they're not going to use cereal boxes and sticky tape, are they?

Originally Posted by Megan

-"DALEKS DO NOT ACCEPT APOLOGIES"

What was wrong with that? I felt that was a very Dalek-like thing to say. Like "Pity? I have no understanding of the word. It is not registered in my vocabulary bank".

Originally Posted by Danny Stewart

-Vigilante Rose busting people's asses in the computer store. How preachy and pushily pretentious can you get? Thanks, RTD.

Preachy? She wanted the kids out of the way so she could use a laptop. She wasn't trying to say "don't steal, kids, stay in school and wear a condom".

Originally Posted by Danny Stewart

And yet everyone acted like they were the scariest force in the universe.

I'd be pretty scared if a bunch of alien creatures came to earth firing lasers everywhere and blowing houses to sky-high-kingdom-come-bollocks-and-gone.

Originally Posted by Danny Stewart

And why does the Supreme Dalek look and speak differently from all the other Daleks? What's the most basic and fundamental principle of a Dalek, kids? That's right -- a dislike for the unlike. So why the fuck are we going to make our leader so different from us? So we can turn on him when he pisses us off?

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that... Davros looks totally different to the Daleks, the supreme Dalek has always looked different in some way. The Dalek emperor was worshipped as a god, and he was like half-dalek, half 'war of the worlds' tripod.

Originally Posted by Danny Stewart

- Rose swaggering away from giant explosion. Again, pointless, unrealistic, and overly dramatic. Exactly what I've come to expect.

Aww I thought that was a lovely nod to 'The Greatest Show in the Galaxy.'

Originally Posted by Danny Stewart

- The cliffhanger was annoying. Megan summed it up well. It's just RTD trying to fuck with people's minds, which just pisses me off.

Wasn't he trying more to keep people's attention so that they are more encouraged to watch next week?

Don't get me wrong of course, I disliked this episode a lot. I'm not taking a pop, nor am I devaluing your review, Danny. I respect your opinion. I'm just highlighting some of your points that I disagreed with.

[Kody]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Rowlands

Don't get me wrong of course, I disliked this episode a lot. I'm not taking a pop, nor am I devaluing your review, Danny. I respect your opinion. I'm just highlighting some of your points that I disagreed with.

Everyone take note, Ronnie shows how to discuss things properly once again.

[Ronnie Rowlands]

I just felt I had to tag that on in case people felt that I was joining in with the kicking

[Danny Stewart]

There is only one thing in your post I'm going to waste my time disputing.

Originally Posted by MI7

You, however, apparently do have to take comfort in figures. I see little other reason in you getting your friends to come here and rate down Turn Left.

I asked absolutely not one single person to come here and rate Turn Left anything. They all hated it so much that they wanted to voice their opinion somewhere. Imagine that.

Originally Posted by Kody

In summary, stop lashing out and spazzing without a coherent argument and settle down. You're a moderator here?

Good question. That can be fixed though.

[Jamie Minty]

I think I disagree and agree with different points on here.

TSE was the most different NuWho ever! I think we should stop saying that this is not Doctor Who when comparing to the Classic Series because we have all known this for 4 series now.

Rewatching it, I enjoy the excitement but some things nag at me. The Project Indigo better get explained a lot more because so far I can see a UNIT guy putting it on and all of a sudden thinking "I wish I could have a coffee, that would wake me up ready to save the world" and he goes to the local Starbucks instead of teleporting on top of the Dalek ship "self-destruct" button. WTF?

Some points Megan made were good, Rose was a bit too KICKASS and I don't think RTD will change her character enough to make her suit her actions because then a lot of people will dislike her.

But How in any way does "facebook" or TO BE CONTINUED affect the story or make the episode any worse. Facebook is a very modern day thing and not the least likely thing for someone to say. TBC . . . so what? Its gonna be big thats what they are saying.

And yet everyone acted like they were the scariest force in the universe.

Thats good news, because they are!

One thing I think RTD did well was Caan, I really think this helped explain the time war more than ever and its interesting to see the Cult of Skaro go from Success to fail to success to fail to success to EPIC fail and then Caan actually to success. I think overall the Cult Of Skaro did it, bringing Davros back. I really want to see the Doctor sympathize with Caan, because that is what our Doctor would do.

SFX, they were good but Who ain't on a Hollywood budget and it has to spread out the money for effects fairly!

I am impressed with this episode but the whole split story-lines (S Proclamation/Earth) was different, interesting but not necessarily brilliant

[Josef Kenny]

Originally Posted by Jamie Minty

Facebook is a very modern day thing and not the least likely thing for someone to say.

But it's not. It's more like iChat.

Originally Posted by Jamie Minty

I think overall the Cult Of Skaro did it, bringing Davros back.

The Cult of Skaro is silly. It's not needed, it detracts from the idea of the Daleks and personifies them into a "collect them all!" box set of varied Daleks with cute, charming, consumer friendly personalties.

[Danny Stewart]

Originally Posted by Rat Souffle

But it's not. It's more like iChat.

OMFG THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I SAID TO MEGAN LIKE AN HOUR AGO. STOP READING MY MIND.

[MI7]

Originally Posted by Danny Stewart

I asked absolutely not one single person to come here and rate Turn Left anything. They all hated it so much that they wanted to voice their opinion somewhere. Imagine that.

I'm guessing they just typed "Turn Left sucks" into Google . Cos "Turn Left Sucks" as a keyword on Google must have this place as the top result. Cos yknow so many people mention it. And ram forward the point of view that it sucks. So much. All the time.

Also, my post was completely seperate to yours, and not actually a response. AMAZING ISN'T IT. I WASN'T TRYING TO REFUTE YOUR ARGUMENT WITH THE FIGURES, SIMPLY POSTING THEM. Odd that you can turn it around though and make it seem like a personal affront. Top marks there, sir.

Good question. That can be fixed though.

OH NO I'M SO SCARED

kody stuff

I'm free to insult it if I wish. "Continue to address a programme we love"? What the hell are you talking about? I love the old series as much as anyone, have most of the released DVDs of it, several books and audio dramas, and even a few of the VHS tapes released way way back. Yet because I dare to criticise it, suddenly I'm some sort of monster? How come you are allowed to constantly belittle the new series yet as soon as I speak out against the old I'm attacked?
Yeah there is AI figures for the old series. I believe City of Death got the highest along with audience figures...but they very rarely came even close to the new series I believe. Certainly nowhere near 91.

I THOUGHT YOU WERE MY FRIEND KODY. NEVER CONTACT ME AGAIN. AND I MEAN EVER.