Doctor Who 5x13 - The Big Bang

Danny Stewart · #1 June 26, 2010, 4:09 PM

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Ronnie Rowlands · #2 June 26, 2010, 5:39 PM

Preeeeetty terrific, a complete headfuck, beautifully performed and leaving us with a two season arc. Fantastic.

Recurring Villain · #3 June 27, 2010, 12:57 AM

the doctor was his own deus ex machina

so much build up for so little payoff, didn't really like the episode at all. what wasted potential.

Ben Dawson · #4 June 27, 2010, 6:07 AM

I think it resolved things very nicely, being confusing, but making sense if you pay attention. As far as pay off goes, I don't agree with RV on this one. American TV has kinda taught us to expect the pay off to be one great big moment near the end of the series finale, this is always what RTD attempted to do. What I think was clever here is that Steven Mofatt didn't do that. In my opinion, the entire episode was the pay off, without everything being resolved right at the end, the episode focussed on resolving things gradually. And too right, the episode was already as massive head fuck, for it all just to be resolved in one final blow (please note that when I say "head fuck", I mean that in the greatest and most beautiful way possible).

I really liked that the first episode of the series essentially set up a 2 season story arc (as Ronnie previously stated), now that is an idea I think is pretty original. And what's more, the series finale kinda worked to refresh my palette as well. The story goes on, but this huge threat is over, at least for now.

What I found was that I really liked the Doctor in that tuxedo, I reckon it works better on him than his usual garments. Now apparently Matt Smith is getting a costume change, so although it is unlikely, could this be the Doctors new look?

However, there is one thing I noticed. As the cracks in time no longer existed, stories which relied on the crack as a way to resolve the story (Time of the Angels/ Flesh and Stone) would have to resolve differently. Unless this whole crack in time business resulted in an alternate timeline where the crack existed, and River re-encounters the Doctor again within that time line. This is one loose thread which bugs me, and I'm trying to work out. However, the rest of the story tied up the series very nicely, so I've still got to say it was a brilliant episode. I just can't figure out how River Song fits into things now.

Recurring Villain · #5 June 27, 2010, 8:43 AM

I did pay attention, thanks. The TARDIS exploded, and then it didn't, through the magic power of tears. There's also the fact that the Doctor managed to escape from the Pandorica with the assistance of his own, post escape, self - yet for this to be even remotely possible, his post escape self would have had to have escaped the Pandorica without a future Doctor's help, making the fact he helped himself escape sort of pointless because if he escaped without his own help at first, there would be no point in having to help himself escape. Not to mention that this was a deus ex machina of RTD proportions.

Then the only explanation we get is a bit of lampshading, and they move on to the next non-issue. The peril River Song is put in is resolved in three seconds by the vortex manipulator device, then Moffat aimlessly creates more time paradoxes to fill in time before conjuring up a magic power for the Pandorica and "sacrificing" the Doctor. Then the Doctor is saved by tears. You know the last movie I saw that in? The Pokemon movie.

Unless Moffat explains a living shitload of what the fuck just happened, I'm pretty sure I've entirely lost faith in his ability to run the series. He built up it all so well, and then created an anticlimax so anticlimactic it probably created a bigger crack in the universe than the exploding TARDIS. RTD's finales were dumb. Moffat's was pointless.

SeeingI · #6 June 27, 2010, 9:24 AM

Well that was just a big ol' mind frack. Loved it! My poor brain is a bit overloaded from it all. Will watch both episodes back to back tonight with some friends and have a better perspective, but I thought it was great, great stuff. None of my favorite theories turned out to be anything like true, but I was satisfied with the explanations, and bought it all totally.

Except...did I just miss it, or did they completely ignore the voice in the TARDIS saying "silence will fall"? Are they leaving it for Season 6? Would have been nice to at least address it. (And silence didn't fall, did it? Does the "no stars" future count as "silence"?)

Originally Posted by Ben Dawson

What I found was that I really liked the Doctor in that tuxedo, I reckon it works better on him than his usual garments. Now apparently Matt Smith is getting a costume change, so although it is unlikely, could this be the Doctors new look?

I don't think I'd like that as his default look (though it's better than the fez!) but he looked damned sharp in that ensemble! And now all three of them are dressed for "The Orient Express in Space." I hope that really is the Christmas episode; sounds lovely.

Ben Dawson · #7 June 27, 2010, 9:27 AM

Originally Posted by Recurring Villain

I did pay attention, thanks. The TARDIS exploded, and then it didn't, through the magic power of tears. There's also the fact that the Doctor managed to escape from the Pandorica with the assistance of his own, post escape, self - yet for this to be even remotely possible, his post escape self would have had to have escaped the Pandorica without a future Doctor's help, making the fact he helped himself escape sort of pointless because if he escaped without his own help at first, there would be no point in having to help himself escape. Not to mention that this was a deus ex machina of RTD proportions.

If you could explain an idea where the Pandorica could've opened in the museum with the Doctor inside, then finding the vortex manipulator in the museum then going back, then that could work to fixed the deus ex machina problem.

Recurring Villain · #8 June 27, 2010, 9:53 AM

Originally Posted by SeeingI

Except...did I just miss it, or did they completely ignore the voice in the TARDIS saying "silence will fall"? Are they leaving it for Season 6? Would have been nice to at least address it

You missed it, the Doctor mentioned they didn't know who blew up the TARDIS.

And that's another thing that annoyed me, he didn't know who, and didn't seem much to care. One would think a mystery being able to blow up the TARDIS would be a bit of a big deal.

Danny Stewart · #9 June 27, 2010, 11:43 AM

I must admit, I'm totally with RV on all this.

Danny Stewart · #10 June 27, 2010, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by Ben Dawson

What I found was that I really liked the Doctor in that tuxedo, I reckon it works better on him than his usual garments. Now apparently Matt Smith is getting a costume change, so although it is unlikely, could this be the Doctors new look?

How did Matt Smith go to a costume fitting for next year a few days ago if his new costume was decided, fitted, worn, and filmed months ago when they filmed the finale?

Ben Dawson · #11 June 27, 2010, 3:02 PM

Originally Posted by Danny Stewart

How did Matt Smith go to a costume fitting for next year a few days ago if his new costume was decided, fitted, worn, and filmed months ago when they filmed the finale?

It could be like the whole 10th Doctor suit thing, he had the brown variation, and the blue. Like I said, it's unlikely.

Also, I'd just like to point out that Steven Moffat has pointed out that the story arc for next series is to revolve around why the Tardis exploded and who is responsible. So although this story arc seems to be finished with, it isn't. So perhaps there's still a few tricks to come out the bag that would answer the plotholes present.

SeeingI · #12 June 27, 2010, 3:55 PM

Originally Posted by Recurring Villain

You missed it, the Doctor mentioned they didn't know who blew up the TARDIS.

And that's another thing that annoyed me, he didn't know who, and didn't seem much to care. One would think a mystery being able to blow up the TARDIS would be a bit of a big deal.

Yeah, I must have missed that. That's one of the drawbacks to watching Doctor Who in an altered state.

I will watch again tonight with friends who couldn't make it last night.

It would have made sense for the Doctor to make a bigger deal of it, but perhaps Moffat didn't want to leave us on an ominous note? The ending was pretty joyful. I don't know. I wish it had been signposted more clearly.

Beta Link · #13 June 27, 2010, 8:51 PM

I'm disappointed that we have to wait another whole year to find out why the TARDIS exploded, etc., but aside from a few parts, I liked the episode.

Though the Doctor coming back with no real explanation as to how really annoyed me.

Ben Dawson · #14 June 28, 2010, 5:48 AM

Originally Posted by Beta Link

Though the Doctor coming back with no real explanation as to how really annoyed me.

Basically, the idea is that he was forced into existence due to Amy remembering him. He's always made a big deal that no one can be written out of existence entirely, they always leave clues. I think that was the idea behind his return anyway.

Zeo · #15 June 28, 2010, 8:02 AM

But then how did River Song remember the Doctor and by extension Amy and Rory and that they were getting married? I mean the Blue diary was empty FFS.

Danny Stewart · #16 June 28, 2010, 8:03 AM

Originally Posted by Ben Dawson

Basically, the idea is that he was forced into existence due to Amy remembering him. He's always made a big deal that no one can be written out of existence entirely, they always leave clues. I think that was the idea behind his return anyway.

Basically, I liked this idea (or at least didn't mind it) until it became a magical solution to all the problems set up by the first part. Universe dust + memory = magic fix-all!

freddiedalladay · #17 June 29, 2010, 8:45 AM

Originally Posted by Recurring Villain

You know the last movie I saw that in? The Pokemon movie.

This is the only bit of your review that truly frightened me

Originally Posted by Recurring Villain

You missed it, the Doctor mentioned they didn't know who blew up the TARDIS.

And that's another thing that annoyed me, he didn't know who, and didn't seem much to care. One would think a mystery being able to blow up the TARDIS would be a bit of a big deal.

I'm gonna make a wild theory (hopefully to be proven correct next season

): The TARDIS blew herself up, to avoid being forced into a particularly nasty situation/action by some entity

Recurring Villain · #18 June 29, 2010, 9:03 AM

Originally Posted by freddiedalladay

This is the only bit of your review that truly frightened me

People don't give that movie nearly enough credit.

freddiedalladay · #19 June 29, 2010, 9:06 AM

Originally Posted by Recurring Villain

People don't give that movie nearly enough credit.

I don't give the entire franchise any credit

It's the only word that makes me magically disappear in reality hehe

SeeingI · #20 June 29, 2010, 11:31 AM

"Who blew up the TARDIS, and why; and when & why will Silence fall?" will be arc questions for Season 6, apparently.

Also, I don't know if anybody noticed, but there were black-robed figures lurking behind the sarcophagai in the scene where Amy meets Amy. The edge of one of their robes is seen stepping into frame, very very briefly. Servants of the Egyptian goddess we'll meet in the Christmas special? Updated "Mummy Robots" or "Servants of Sutekh"? Or maybe they are "The Silence"?