Perhaps we aren't ruining our planet quite as much as I thought we were.

[Superkid11]

Up until recently I've strongly believed global warming is the truth and that any who deny it are conservative nutjobs that fear change.

But was I being fair? No, I wasn't. I was recently directed to a pretty captivating video that talked about the precise science behind global warming and how it ultimately doesn't quite add up.

It's about an hour and 14 minutes long, but I urge you to watch it all. You may disagree with points made earlier on (some of the usual arguments are made, like climate change happening often in history and such, but then it gives more evidence) but this made me change my mind about global warming.

Here it is.
Again, I urge you to watch it all when you can find the time.

I do think we may be somewhat accelerating the process, if only somewhat. None the less, I do think belief in global warming is good for progression. More money put in alternative(and renewable) energy sources ftw. But there is a significant downside at the end. It's very sad.
In the end the global warming alarm is basically a religion. But what do you think?

It doesn't touch deforestation though. That's still worrisome in my book.

[Recurring Villain]

Didn't watch the video, but here's an interesting factoid; the sun is cooling down. NASA is working its ass off trying to work out why, but the Sun is at its least active in all of recorded history.

So, does your video explain how the Earth is getting hotter as the Sun is getting colder?

Also, do they mention the whole 'scientists are conspiring for more research grants' bullshit? Because anyone who takes that kind of idea seriously can't honestly expect to be taken seriously themselves.

Here's a tip: don't take internet 'documentaries' seriously. That includes shit like Zeitgeist. They sprinkle a little bit of truth amongst a whole lot of bullshit, and people lap that shit right up. I make a point of not watching documentaries like that, instead preferring, should I feel the need, to look at what they're about and do my own research on the subject matter, forming my own conclusions.

Also, you can easily verify the information in the documentary, and any media, by working out who funded/produced/wrote etc. the documentary and who they're connected to. If someone connected to Big Oil, say, is connected to this vid of yours, you can pretty much believe the opposite of every point they make and you'd be pretty close to the truth.

[Superkid11]

Originally Posted by Recurring Villain

If someone connected to Big Oil, say, is connected to this vid of yours, you can pretty much believe the opposite of every point they make and you'd be pretty close to the truth.

That actually comes up in the vid. The scientists involved said they were being accused of being paid by oil companies. Their answer, basically: "I wish." That could be a lie, of course, but the site itself has no indication of it and I have no idea whether or not it aired on TV prior.

But yeah, despite the nature of my post it hasn't entirely convinced me. I'm just saying is all.

[Ross Hendrie]

I've never been quite convinced by global warming. I just dont know what to think.

[Ad Massive]

Well I agree with Ross, Throughout all of earth's time there have been fluctuations in global temperature, Why does that change now?

[Superkid11]

Originally Posted by Ad Massive

Well I agree with Ross, Throughout all of earth's time there have been fluctuations in global temperature, Why does that change now?

The reason I never bought that argument is because back then we weren't pumping greenhouse gases like we are now. I always took it as just a comfort thought. True, volcanoes do produce more greenhouse gas than the average power plant, but there are more power plants than volcanoes.

Never the less, the video showed me why that argument holds some water. I'm not entirely convinced it's not manmade, but it's made me skeptical at least. I think it may be both. It is a natural process, but one we're not exactly helping. Though what RV said about the sun does make me wonder. But does the sun's actual temperature have anything to do with sunspots?
I admittedly don't know enough to be conclusive. I still think that belief in global warming is ultimately good for progress as it helps us find an alternative(but practical) energy source... even if it does hold back places like Africa.

I'm still wondering just what happens to all the Co2 and Methane we pump out then if it isn't heating up the planet. The person who linked me to it says it's just being recycled like it always has, though he also said deforestation could derail that eventually.

One of my great flaws is that I have trouble staying skeptical of anything when I see something that sounds convincing enough. I try to make up for that as best I can. That's one reason I posted this, you guys tend to snap me back to reality when I get like that.

[Recurring Villain]

With some global cooperation, Africa could become a clean industrial powerhouse. A solar farm over the Sahara could supply the entire of Europe, for example. Of course, you wouldn't expect such a massive farm to be built in one place, but considering how much sun much of the African continent receives, and the comparatively small economies of the African nations, clean energy is a vastly superior investment for them to make, as they don't have to appropriate any kind of fuel except that supplied for free by our Sun, leaving room for them to focus further investments in other areas.

The problem is not that clean energy would hold places like Africa back, but that the western corporate powers directly benefit from keeping the people of that continent poor. Who do you think makes your shoes or shirts? Minimum wage would be several orders of magnitude greater than what these people, the modern equivalent of slaves, receive.

As for past fluctuations in the Earth's temperature, they have been tied to several factors, including solar activity, greenhouse gas levels (released by volcanoes, and by lifeforms predating humanity, believe it or not) and even background radiation depending on the region of the galaxy we are passing through. Right now there is no major volcanic activity (however, Yellowstone park has recently become more active), solar activity is low (more sunspots = hotter. less sunspots = colder) and there is no evidence to suggest that we are passing through a particularly 'hot' area of the galaxy.

So what could possibly be causing this marked increase in heat? Is God hugging the Earth a little tighter than usual?

It isn't that far-fetched that humanity could be having such a drastic effect, despite what they want you to believe. The Earth's atmosphere consists of oxygen only because early life-forms emitted oxygen as a byproduct of photosynthesis. In the early stages of Earth's history, life (which was very basic at this point, not fish or kangaroos or anything, mostly single-cellular) almost went extinct because the Earth's entire atmosphere was changed, then an ice-age ensued because this new atmosphere was not holding enough heat. Fortunately, small colonies of a mutated strain of the single-celled agent survived, which could perform photosynthesis using oxygen instead of methane, emitting CO2 as a byproduct. This heated the Earth back up, and life as we know it resulted.

Now, if a bunch of microbes can changed the composition of the atmosphere, admittedly over a vastly greater span of time than that of the industrial age of humanity, is it really so far-fetched to believe that 6 billion human beings, all driving cars, using electricity, eating livestock, firing weapons of various sizes at each other, and generally using an immensely greater amount of energy per capita than the rest of the species on the planet combined, could have enough of an impact on the composition of our atmosphere to induce a global increase in heat?

See, if you look into these things, you find all kinds of different areas intersect. The more you know, the less your ideas are 'opinions' and the more they become 'observations'.

It's most likely true that humanity is causing global warming. However, many people seem to be in a panic where no panic is necessary. Should the ice caps melt, massive parts of places like the united states will become flooded, some arid, whilst places like Russia will become newly habitable where one they were inhospitable. Personally, I think the panic is useful for technological progress towards better, less expensive (in the long term) sources of energy. However, I don't see global warming as being the harbinger of humanity's extinction. If we could get off this planet faster using fossil fuels, then I don't really give a shit.

PS. if parts of this dont make sense im sorry, I'm pretty tired atm. sleep now

[Superkid11]

I'm saving your post. Yeah, it made perfect sense. Thanks for enlightening us.

On getting off the planet, somebody on BZPower talked about a school project where they were supposed to come up with alternate means of getting off the Earth. His was using some kind of magnetic field opposite of the Earth's to lift a spacecraft off. They did a small experiment based on it and it seemed to work.

I forgot precisely how he said it worked but it sounded pretty neat.

[Jamie Minty]

I don't know what to believe. Our schools going crazy over it (first Carbon Neutral in the uK, possibly the world ... who gives a shit) We just got solar panels (in England!?) and theres a board inside telling us how much power is making, our Physics teacher took a look and says the panels are creating less energy than the board requires so we're giving off more Carbon or whatnot!

We've had energy bikes in (pedal power a TV etc.) Bulbs are the hardest. UK is getting new bulbs in which save energy trouble is they are crap, they give off next to no light at all!

I know its a problem but we can only sort it out as a team so I'm only making the changes when everyone else does. At the end of the day, my school being carbon neutral isn't going to make you ask your teachers to do the same. If I unplug my stereo at night (theres an annoying red light on it ) You guys aren't gonna feel you have to do the same. When this is worldwide we need to make an impression by acting big, otherwise it fails.

Plus a lot of causes for Gobal warming are natural which we can't stop. Heathrow have to cut Co2 emissions for their new runway (I bet they won't do it). With the amount of planes going around we ain't gonna don't ways and with China we're all screwed unless they pull it out.

Also UK is getting criticized for not cutting enough emissions for the 2012 sites (we now have to pay more). WTF? This rule obviously didn't count in Beijing. Running was made difficult their emissions were so high, I can assure they ain't over here!

[Recurring Villain]

Originally Posted by Jamie Minty

Plus a lot of causes for Gobal warming are natural which we can't stop.

Did you read anything I wrote? Many of the natural processes that could lead to warming are inactive. For all intents and purposes, we should be heading towards an ice age (which is what they thought would be happening in the 70's), not a heatwave.

Originally Posted by Jamie Minty

Also UK is getting criticized for not cutting enough emissions for the 2012 sites (we now have to pay more). WTF? This rule obviously didn't count in Beijing. Running was made difficult their emissions were so high, I can assure they ain't over here!

People give China slack because they are, apparently, a 'developing nation'. They have much of the world by the gonads because they are pretty much the industrial center of the world. 90% of everything you own was most probably made there. If China was made to fit to similar CO2 emission levels as 'developed' nations like the US, their capacity for production would go down massively (for a while, anyway), and our corporate overlords would lose a huge source of cheap labour. And nobody would want to disappoint the multinationals.

PS. Here's a very interesting article I found today. Totally off topic, but I love this sort of stuff; http://www.newscientist.com/article/...html?full=true

Site is a good source of new information, btw. Just make sure it isn't your only source.

[Jamie Minty]

Originally Posted by Recurring Villain

Did you read anything I wrote? Many of the natural processes that could lead to warming are inactive. For all intents and purposes, we should be heading towards an ice age (which is what they thought would be happening in the 70's), not a heatwave.

Umm well I'm lousy at reading long posts and global warming doesn't exactly keep my attention. However theres some lake that gives off lots of ozone I've heard about and Cow Farts give off methane, cow farts are still active, thats the cause I was thinking about!

Originally Posted by Recurring Villain

People give China slack because they are, apparently, a 'developing nation'. They have much of the world by the gonads because they are pretty much the industrial center of the world. 90% of everything you own was most probably made there. If China was made to fit to similar CO2 emission levels as 'developed' nations like the US, their capacity for production would go down massively (for a while, anyway), and our corporate overlords would lose a huge source of cheap labour. And nobody would want to disappoint the multinationals.

Yeah I do understand that China sort of needs to have the emissions that it does give off however it is still one of the big problems. Its sort of a vicious circle. we cut down Chinas emissions we get less production and can cause trouble. We don't cut down, China keeps producing damages planet.

Originally Posted by Recurring Villain

PS. Here's a very interesting article I found today. Totally off topic, but I love this sort of stuff; http://www.newscientist.com/article/...html?full=true

Site is a good source of new information, btw. Just make sure it isn't your only source.

Haha thats great!

Sorry if the stuff I say doesn't make sense here. I'm just going on the facts that I've heard (and theres a lot of bullsh*t going around) and obviously you know your stuff RV.

[Ben Dawson]

Originally Posted by Jamie Minty

However theres some lake that gives off lots of ozone I've heard about and Cow Farts give off methane, cow farts are still active, thats the cause I was thinking about!

Hmm, I wonder if there are cows on Mars???

[Recurring Villain]

Originally Posted by Jamie Minty

I've heard about and Cow Farts give off methane, cow farts are still active, thats the cause I was thinking about!

Cows and livestock count as an anthropomorphic (that is, caused by humans) form of global warming. You know that without farming, those species (especially chickens, interestingly enough) would have become extinct by now? The reason there is so much livestock around is because we've bred them, so it is as much our problem as our cars and power plants.

Originally Posted by Jamie Minty

Sorry if the stuff I say doesn't make sense here. I'm just going on the facts that I've heard (and theres a lot of bullsh*t going around) and obviously you know your stuff RV.

Evidently, what you heard were not 'facts' but, most probably, 'opinions' and like you said, bullshit.

Originally Posted by Ben Dawson

Hmm, I wonder if there are cows on Mars???

Those pockets of methane, which I assume you are referencing, could have natural causes. It would be very interesting if they did, finally discover life, though. Imagine all the retcons the major religions would have to make

In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth... and Mars. - The New, New Testament